Phoenix Exotics

Phoenix Exotics is comprised primarily of a group who believe that they should be allowed to breed, buy, sell and trade exotics of all types.  They maintain a chat list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Phoenix_Exotics/ and anyone can join.  Because they spend much of their time trying to discredit Big Cat Rescue, many of their members have made a point to copy me whenever my name or organization is the subject of their bashing and threats.  The group has 866 members and it appears that the main purpose of the list is to mount counter attacks to legislation that is being promoted to protect exotic animals from exploitation and abuse.

The purpose of sharing quotes here from members of Phoenix Exotics is to show that they are actively trying to discredit anyone who would speak out for the animals.  They cannot fight the issue of keeping wild animals as pets based on the merits.  They seem to believe they can only succeed in “protecting their right to have whatever kind of animal they want” by trying to take the focus off the issue and put it on things that happened a long time ago in the pasts of those who have evolved in their beliefs far beyond where these people are so deeply entrenched.

and follow the links from there. Some of these people have tried to discredit Big Cat Rescue by making accusations about our practices to The Association of Sanctuaries, the USDA and others.  None of the allegations against us have been found to have any merit.

The only person to give them any help, was Chris Hawes at Bay News 9 who had just run a story on our rezoning.  She had tried to find someone who was against it, but all of our neighbors were for it, so she twisted and edited an interview with our next door neighbor to make it look like they were opposed.  After the story ran our neighbors came to us and told us that she took what they had said, completely out of context, and pieced it together to make it look like they were opposed to us.  The one place where I said, “You got me on that.  I just don’t know.  It’s not in the list,” was when she said, “You claim that you stopped breeding cats in 1997 but I have proof that you had caracal kittens born in 1998.”  When she showed me her “proof”, it was a newsletter that said we thought that one of the caracals was pregnant, but we must have been wrong because there were no kittens after that time.  If she had shown the tape from where she made the accusation through where I showed her that no kittens had been born the viewers would have seen that my statement was only reflective of the fact that I didn’t know how she could have proof that we had kittens when I knew we didn’t.  She cut it to just that one statement to make it look like she had caught me at something, when in fact I was able to show her that she had not.  Despite her claim that we never disclosed on the web site that some of the cats were born there in the early years, we have always linked those cats stories to our own history and evolution.

We spoke with Jim Moore who was quoted in her story and he said he intended no harm to us and knew that we were not breeding on purpose after 1997 because he was there and saw that we were separating animals as quickly as funds would allow.  We don’t know why Chris Hawes seems to have such a vendetta against Big Cat Rescue.  We suspect it is because of the wrath she incurred from people who know that exotic cats don’t make good pets after she previously ran a story promoting hybrid exotics as pets.  She had interveiwed us prior to running the story and we showed her all of the abandoned hybrids we have had to take in and informed her of all of the reasons why it never works out for the pet or the people, but she ran the cutesy-exotic-on-the-couch story anyway.  She probably got a lot of negative mail from people who know better who often cite our website as the explanation of why wild animals shouldn’t be promoted as pets.

When Chris Hawes said that Vernon Yates and others we are trying to bar from breeding, selling and keeping tigers as pets had told her bad things about us, we invited Chris Hawes to look through all of our records to show the allegations to be false, but she chose instead to go with the story she had concocted with their help and did not indulge our request to show her the proof of our innocence.  If you were to play the tape she took of the hour or more she interviewed on camera, you would see that over and over I offered to show her the truth, but that she didn’t want to see it.  She claimed to be using USDA documents as her source, but USDA doesn’t keep records more than 3 years old, and the records she referred to were all dated prior to 1997.  There was nothing in the old records that we have not freely admitted all along on our web site and on our tours.  This was not investigative reporting or she would have determined the same thing that everyone else did;  we were wrongly accused. In just one year since her story ran we have been featured in the press, in a positive light, more than 130 times! We have had more than 300 positive stories done on us in just past few years. Not one other negative story ever aired because everyone else knows better.

Despite being tried and convicted on nothing more than gossip I don’t hold any ill will toward Chris Hawes or Bay News 9.  I was thinking in the aftermath how sad it would be to be her.  Every day I am surrounded by people who love me, who share my vision and who are all working together to make the world a better place.  My life is full of joy.  Chris Hawes has probably never had a single day in her life that is as good as every day I enjoy and I can’t even imagine how sad a life that would be.  When you focus on bad things you attract bad things into your life.  While many of our supporters, who saw the show that is being distributed widely by those who breed and sell dangerous animals as pets, have contacted the station asking that she be fired, we did not encourage that and have not asked that she be reprimanded. Until she experiences an awakening of how good life can be, if you focus on the positive, she condemns herself. (You might note that it was one of the last stories she ever did for Bay News 9 and she is no longer working for any news provider in Florida)

Resignation from Animal Advisory Commission

On the above paragraph 3 you will find quotes from the The Association of Sanctuaries and the actual report from USDA on their investigation into the false allegations being made by the exotic pet owners.  Just click on the links in that paragraph to view them.   I found it interesting that in March Linda Hunnicutt (lindmonk) who listed at PublicData.com as having a criminal record in bank and charity fraud was bragging that she was having me removed from the Animal Advisory Committee, three months before I knew anything about it, and her email suggests that she and the person she intended the email to, were sending multiple letters to pressure Commissioner Blair to have me removed.

Please note that it specifically states that one purpose of effort with the reporter was to have me removed from the “commission board”, i.e. the Animal Advisory Committee.

“—– Original Message —–

From: lndmonk@aol.com

To: monkeyyardsale@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:11 PM

Subject: Re: [monkeyyardsale] Caorle Baskins.

In a message dated 3/10/06 3:06:36 PM Central Standard Time, lndmonk@aol.com writes:

No Vernon didn’t I did… with Vernons information..lol…. and with all the messages we have sent out, (you and me)  she is being removed from the commission board and they will be doing a TV expose’ on her next week.. the tv crew is out at Vernons now.. he keeps calling me and having me speak to the reporter on behalf of simply simian… so we are in the forefront anyway…. Gloria is the one that wanted the website.. she is our ace in the hole, a professional lobbyist.. doing a crack up job at it too.. and she is thinking we are angels as we put that site up for her.. she was supposed to send you a check for the cost a few days ago.. so when you get it that is what it is for… not a membership… from Gloria Johnson…

I thought this was going to Karen please you guys keep this quiet… “

As you can see, it has been their plan to use you to remove me from the Advisory Board since back in March when they fed Chris Hawes the misinformation she relied on for her article.  Gloria Johnson is the person in the St. Pete Times article today called Cuddly Pet or Wild Animal? HERE

The following seems to be circulating all over.

On Behalf Of Raven Simons
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 5:59 PM
To: EPOU@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EPOU] FW: FL Animal Rights activist removed from Animal Advisory

Hello all,

I am asking an important favor of everyone. Please write a thank you letter to Mr. Brian Blair for removing Carole Lewis Baskin (Big Cat Rescue and Humane USA) from the Hillsborough County Animal Advisory Committee. Carole is having a fit at being removed. Mr. Blair needs to show community support on this decision.

To all the bird people- This is the women that posted our names and address on her Humane USA website.

To all the pet owners- I welcome anyone to attend the meetings with us. This group called the Animal Advisory committee are nuts. They are extreme in their views.

Please feel free to forward this email to supportive individuals. We need as many letters as possible by Sunday 6/4/06. Anyone and everyone can write a letter, not just Hillsborough County people. This effects any animal owner. Counties tend to follow each other’s lead.

Animal rights activist do not have a place on an advisory committee. They have a personal agenda that is not in anyone’s best interest, including the animals.

Mr. Blair can be reached at Blairb@hillsboroughcounty.org . I am including the letter that I sent.

Thank you,

Lisa

Dear Mr. Blair:

I am writing to thank you for removing Carole Lewis Baskin from the Hillsborough County Animal Advisory Committee.

I have been attending the Animal Advisory meetings. The committee is made up of animal rescue / animal rights individuals and local veterinarians. Ms. Baskin is the Florida director of Humane USA, an animal rights group. I feel there should be individuals representing the pet community (groomers, kennel owners, dog trainers,ect.) on this advisory committee.

The current Animal Advisory committee is outrageous in their proposals. They would like the Hillsborough County ordinances to regulate the pet population and our ownership to an extreme. Without the balance of pet industry individuals, I feel that Hillsborough County will not be a pet friendly place to live. The pet industry provides many jobs in our area and has a multimillion dollar impact on our County. The medical community has also proven that pets improve the quality of our lives.

The story on BayNews 9 about the fraudulent fund raising at Big Cat Rescue, which Ms. Baskin is the CEO, is of concern also. It makes you question her integrity.

Thank you for taking the time to address this issue.

Respectfully,

Lisa Welch

This is also being circulated through the email list of the Phoenix Exotics, a group who promote exotic pet ownership and whose abuse was documented in the API study.  Please notice that they view the entire Committee as “nuts” and feel people who are concerned about animal welfare have no place on it.  This link is an undercover investigation video into members of Phoenix Exotics It is well worth the time to watch to fully understand why these people are doing all they can to discredit me and Big Cat Rescue.

See more on the resignation HERE

Posts from Phoenix Exotics and Others

We have listed information on those who seek to discredit Big Cat Rescue for two reasons:

1.  So that you can make your own determination as to their credibility and sincerity.

2.  In the hopes that you will say a silent prayer for them asking that they find peace and discover their inner beauty that will cause them to want to spread good will rather than gossip.

In the posts below, you will see that these people appear to threaten my life, encourage others to try and discredit us, sow seeds of doubt and even try to cause us financial harm by getting the whole group to click repeatedly on our pay per click advertising so that we will be billed unfairly.   They suggest contacting those who provide service to us and our supporters to try and poison them against us.  We have not included it here, but on their chat group they discuss methods to violate the Lacey Act and smuggle exotics across state and federal borders.  Despite all of the malicious intent on the part of the following people, who we will identify as best we can, since they hide behind email addresses, we do not have ill will toward them.  We are all here on planet earth to learn our lessons and to grow from them.  We are no judge of anyone and provide this so that you can make your own judgment.

All of the typos, mis spellings and bad grammar of the original writers have been left in tact.

Who are these people and why do they not want laws that would restrict the trade in dangerous exotic animals?  Find out HERE

Subject: PE members are threatening you?

To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
From: SOUTHZOO@AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 00:38:50 EST
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carole- BCR comments- My response

In a message dated 2/17/2006 12:37:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tigers9@cox.net writes:

U mean  kind of like a bullet?…;-)  it depends if u r on the receiving  end
or not.;-)

ROFL! Yup, fully loaded!

Community email addresses:
Post message: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe:    Phoenix_Exotics-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe:  Phoenix_Exotics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner:   Phoenix_Exotics-owner@yahoogroups.com
Website:     

Shortcut URL to this page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Phoenix_Exotics/

Subject: Comment from GreenPeople directory

Hello,

We received the following comment from tigers9@cox.net regarding your listing at:
http://www.greenpeople.org/searchResults.cfm?memid=5833
The comment is:

Wasn’t Carole Baskin/Lewis formerly called Widlife on Easy Street a breeder, and most of her animals she bought/bred herself,or got retired tigers from Ringling,who pay for their upkeep?See link to her book where she admits it: I also own her video,BIG CAT COMPANIONS on breeding exotic cats.

Subject: Comment from GreenPeople directory

Hello,

We received the following comment from azooforu@yahoo.com regarding your listing at:
http://www.greenpeople.org/searchResults.cfm?memid=5833
The comment is:
Wildlife on Easy Street is nothing more then a place a greedy woman keeps HER RETIRED BREEDERS at, and some Ringling Circus tigers who are paid for (OVERCHARGED) by the compnay.  She higly inflates the cost for enclosures that are secured by hog rings. The land their enclosures are built on was formerly a dump, and junk still pushes it’s way to the top
of the animals’ enclosures. They have been under investigation for numerous violations to the ANIMAL WELFARE ACT by the USDA.  This isn’t paradise, it’s BUSINESS.

Subject: GreenPeople listing: Big Cats and Private Owners

Bob Nevin  ( Bob@chnevin.com ) Robert W. Nevin, VP, Recruiting   10223 Sablewood Dr. Aurora, Ohio 44202 (Tel) 800-388-7986 (Fax)330-995-3592 
has visited your GreenPeople listing:
Big Cat Rescue
http://www.greenpeople.org/searchResults.cfm?memid=5833

and is emailing you the following:

Its my right to responibly own a lion. If you don’t like that then clam up. I feel real bad that you can not educate people on how to work and care for big cats short of saying you can’t have them. If owning big cats are banned, then you will see an even greater problem with enforcement because all the cats will be sold on the black market without any papers or breeding certificates. Also a lot more accidents and inexperienced people working with them will get hurt or even worse.
Its very important that you educate people how to work and train the big cats. Also, its very important that we save the species and private owners are doing a good job. I think that you should start realizing and welcoming that fact instead of trying to make a mockery of it.

Carole’s Note: GreenPeople decided that the opinions were without merit and did not post these libelous comments.  The book link is maintained by one of our opponents who hides behind a bulk registrar and the text is not endorsed by Carole Baskin or Big Cat Rescue.

Linda Hunnicutt lndmonk@yahoo.com Brought pet monkey from NC into FL and said she left it in her car at Vernon Yates while she protested our Kids, Cats & Candidates day.  She had led the group from Phoenix Exotics in coming here from out of state.   Linda Hunnicutt of Simply Simian  Address: 27 Beaton Path,   Leicester City, State Zipcode: Leicester, NC 28748 Phone: (828) 683-2009 Her criminal convictions that include bank fraud and charity fraud are HERE.

Email: lndmonk@aol.com

From: lndmonk
To: monkeyyardsale@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 11:32 PM
Subject: [monkeyyardsale] Home again

I just got in this afternoon and found 1300 messages none of which I could get too. This computer has gone AWOL. I have had to go to yahoo then back to aol to read the newest ones?  what a mess.
Anyway needless to say I deleted the most of them..
I got to Fl on Friday night, really Late, Had a flat on the I 10 INTERSTATE  and had to get the Road Rangers out there to help change it and found they couldn’t doit either as it has locking nuts on the wheels to keep people from steeling them.. My Son finally told me to tell them to knock off the stud that had the lock on it. which was the solution..
Then had to drive very slowly for the next hundred forty miles which was worse than waiting for the Rangers..lol.. Anyway after staying lost on the interstate interchanges for about an hour I just called and told my son to come get me which he did and found I was only about 10 minutes from his house.lol… I did get there though which is what counts.  The demonstration was a good one, have the photos etc and will get them up on the website and in the newsletter comming out in a few days.

I did get a lot of aggravation there, those people are really mean.  One blonde which I will not mention her name, was put up to pulling my strings, she had the nerve to come up and start asking me questions about what I had in my car, if I had a monkey in there?  when I asked her who the hell she was she said Carole Basking, now I think you all know I have a mouth, but I only uttered a few profane words to her and told her to get the FFFFFFF away from me.. I never raised my hand but my Grandaughter was standing there with huge eyes just waiting for the blows to start flying..lol… Of course everyne thought that was really funny…. then  Vernon who I entrusted with Buddy during the demonstration came by and put his arm around me and told me we had a little problem… Buddy had opened his cage and was up in a tree?  He also learned a few new words …lol…

It was a wonderful experience, those people are dedicated, serious and working for us all.  I got to put faces with names and loved meeting all of them.

We did our job. Only abut 3 cars went into the place while we were there, and one of the candidates read our material and switched sides, grabbed a sign and was standing with us on the street.  The cops she had called to keep us from harrassing her guests ( she had very very few of them to harrass) took our flyers thanks to someone who told them their husband was a cop also and eased up on us.

People in that town got the message, the traffic was heavy, and everyone slowed down to see the signs.. They were read.  Lots of people would give us the thumb up sign so they must have nad some previous knowledge of BAskins.

The most excitement was when the fire engine flew in with sirens and lights flashing followed by a ambulance.. I actualy was hoping maybe Carol had met with a horrid accident? but we never did find out what the problem was.

I am really dissapointed that Geraldo didn’t show up to see the real truth and went ahead and aired the show but from what I heard from someone? it was not a good one and didn’t show much of her place at all so he evidently edited it quite a bit.  That is a positive thing.  Our messages did get through.

That is not the end of it, there will be bigger and better demonstrations and like I said on another list.  It aint over till the fat lady sings and I haven’t had any voice lessons yet.  so we will keep on till we get it right.. After all we are new at this stuff but are learning real quick.

It is good to be home and get some real sleep in my own bed but Karen better get my bed at her house ready cause I am heading out of here next week for Texas… Yeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

It is snowing still here, the ground is frozen and I am movin on south… Buddy told his father tonight he was a southern monkey.. didn’t like this hillbilly place.. LOL…..

Linda

Carole’s Note: Name: Linda Hunnicutt of Simply Simian  Address: 27 Beaton Path, Leicester, NC 28748  Phone: (828) 683-2009  Email: lndmonk@aol.com She is said to use a number of other names and aliases as well to make it look like several people are responding on an issue, rather than her, or just her.

I did not go up to the group of protestors but did have them filmed to find out who was there.  They claim to have had a candidate join them, but all of the candidates who were scheduled to come, did come, with the exception of one woman and I do not know who the man in the photo they are promoting as a candidate was.   While she claims only three cars came, we had 178 guests.  The officer we hired to manage traffic was not duped by them and knows the trouble that irresponsible exotic animal owners cause in the Tampabay area.

From: lndmonk@yahoo.com
Date: Sat Mar 4, 2006  11:35 am
Subject: Fla Python bill.          lndmonk

This is the bill Carole Baskin is pushing so hard.. it is only a open door
to other more dangerous amendments which will be coming if this is passed…
Everyone keep in mind that we need Fla as a example of regulations that are
fair and working .

Fla. Python bill:

It now has a number – HB 1459.  The Senate bill still does not  but if you
track the house bill, when the Senate companion is ready it will tell  you so
you don’t always have to keep checking on Posey’s reptile bill.  I  hope you
will give this number to everyone you know so they can track it .  That is how
to find out what Committees it gets assigned to and who is on  them,  When it is
put on the Committee Agenda (in the order the Speaker  assigns the
Committees) and where, what time, date, etc., then after, if it was  passed,
failed, tp’d (temporarily ‘postponed ‘Note this doesn’t  mean passed – but postponed)
.
Once there is a Senate Bill you will want to take its number and go to
Senate bill tracking to find out, the who, when, what, etc. as described  above.
(Florida)

_SIMPLY SIMIAN  INC._ ()
_Repo-Pac_ ()

_Grannys against  Peta_ ()
Warrior Grannys strike against  Peta.

From: Bigcats10@aol.com
Date: Sat Mar 4, 2006  7:14 am
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] BCR Ban Big Cat Exploitation petition      bigcats10

In a message dated 3/4/2006 3:02:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
lndmonk@yahoo.com writes:

If you  notice the very first line on the petition admits she is  lobbying …. isn’t that against what her non profit status  allows?

Here is an excerpt from the IRS re: 501:

Exemption Requirements
To be tax-exempt as an organization described in IRC Section  501(c)(3) of
the Code, an organization must be organized and  operated exclusively for one or
more of the purposes set forth in  IRC Section 501(c)(3) and none of the
earnings of the organization  may inure to any private shareholder or
individual.
In addition, it  may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial
part of  its activities and it may not participate at all in campaign  activity
for or against political  candidates.
_http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html_
)

Ms. Baskin is on the BOD of Humane USA which is a  political group which has the freedom to participate in these  activities.

Also, USDA has no jurisdiction over these activities.  Contacting the IRS with all of Carole’s political maneuvers is an  excellent idea. It can’t hurt.

Vicki

From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com Raymond Rooney
Date: Sat Feb 25, 2006  4:13 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] API expose runeraion

This must have happened while I was away but I am dismayed that people here fell for this.

Without having read the exchanges I can only guess that they were taken on their word and no checking was done. I would appreciate it if someone could
point me toward the time period when these guys popped up. I’d like to study their approach.

This may mark the first time an AR sting has been pulled successfully but it’s not the first time someone has come to us wanting to see animals and owners with negative intent.

We all remember the NY Times reporter, the Al Guart “expose'” and court circus, and nibbles from various TV producers. We did get lucky with one UK photographer but that was a fluke.

Strangers are not going to seek us out to tell our wonderful story. There’s no percentage in it. It’s a poor seller. At best it might make filler in a pet publication but people who come thousands of miles don’t do it for penny pieces.

And I don’t care how nice you think someone is, you never show them a dirty enclosure, ratty fences, or less-than-perfect specimens. It doesn’t matter if they were just sick or if you just rescued them from somewhere, animals in poor condition look bad and give a bad impression.

You can not count on slack from a “fellow exotic owner”, especially if you haven’t verified that they are owners or seen their place. Carole Baskin is a “fellow exotic owner.”

Outfits like API have huge resources and can drag people in from anywhere in the country. Or the world. Sister organizations can supply people if they think you might know their own staff. HSUS, IFAW, and API are global.

Those who had poor conditions and/or animals did a lot of damage and need to clean up their acts. They should expect a visit from some agency – F&W, animal control, humane society, USDA, as appropriate. These people will give names when they see the lawmakers next and documenation is a natural request.

Worse, it will cost Phoenix credibility and scare away those who might have supported its actions. They now have to fear this being used against them if they support us in the future. If the group representing “responsible ownership” is so “bad” what does that leave?

AR people are a lot of things – cultists, fanatical, emotional, and sometimes disturbed – but they are not idiots and are determined liars, two-faced, and well-connected. They WILL lie to your face, assure you they are your friends, share your concerns and goals, and want to help you and your animals then turn around and blow you all to hell.

The ends justify the means.

Remember, to them we are not nice people with interesting jobs or hobbies. We are scum, exploiters, abusers, psychotic, and stupid. There’s no shame in lying or doing any other action to horrible people, there’s pride.

And if it negates a whole group of opposition people then it was justified and furthers the goal of animal liberation.

Empty cages! Empty cages!

But we should take this away from all this: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”

Let this be a learning experience. Don’t be a show-off. If you can’t control the outcome, don’t get involved. Even if you are within regulations they make it sound awful – poses with wild animal, animal lives life in small prison, etc.

If they aren’t from a trusted group don’t let them on the property!  Ray

From: <President@…
To: <Phoenix_exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 11:44 AM
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] API expose

Opening Statement given at the Phoenix Exotics meeting, 9am, Feb 24th by
President Jeanne Hall.

Welcome to the Phoenix Exotics Meeting.
Due to the nature of this meeting we may possibly have protestors or  reporters outside or in attendance.  Please refer such folks to Vicki.  We  have security, and she is in charge.
We also have another similar situation.  As many of you know Phoenix  Members have been opposing ban legislation from API (Animal Protection  Institute) for years.   One of the most successful places we have opposed  ban bills is Washington State.  Well, API has done an undercover operation which they have just released  as an “in depth investigation”.  Actually, a couple of very nice seeming  fellows dropped by from overseas.  Known on the list as Austrian Tom, he  and friend “fred” were welcomed into our homes as fellow exotic owners
visiting our country.  This occurred a few months ago.  Their report shows they did not understand what they were shown or told.  We are supposed to respond to such a violation with terror.  We are  supposed to run away from the big scary ARA (Animal Rights Activists) and  withdraw from the fight.  But this violation shows something else much more important.  It shows WE are being effective enough against the API that they felt the  need to use dirty tricks.  There was no need to resort to such deceitful behavior as pretending to  befriend owners or intentionally record owners without their consent.  In  fact, the report tries, hard, through editing the info, to meet their  agenda without really hitting the mark.  Soon we will have a full response to this report up on the web.  With  pictures of these undercover agents included.  We are NOT running away or hiding.  API’s cowardly actions only show we  ARE having an effect.

Message to API: API, we know WHO you are and WHAT you are doing.  You are  invited back anytime, but this time let US record YOU.

President, Phoenix Exotic Wildlife Association
Jeanne Hall

President@…
P.O. Box 1132
Chehalis, WA. 98532
360-767-0746

Permission to crosspost and forward freely, granted.

From: BOB PITT <azooforu@…
Date: Tue Feb 21, 2006  11:12 pm
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] More comments on Business week monkye article             azooforu

keep on writing them I just did.

— Z <tigers9@… wrote:

Seems  like Business week removed comments against  Big Cat Rescue, see recent comments and paste below BEFORE they removed  our comments.
Z

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/feb2006/nf2006027_8130_db016.htm

Most recent comments

<
5AB4C9AA53B095F6C0B6E?action=all&productId=3163 See

<

AB4C9AA53B095F6C0B6E?initialView=true&productId=3163&productCode=spec
your  own comments
Nickname: JayTee
Review: In reference to a comment, that monkeys can inflict harm to humans,  when was the last time you read that an adult monkey molested or raped a  minor child? For the most part, the monkey parents that I know don’t expect  them to be our “children”. Yet [monkeys] are like any other pet. We don’t  just dress them up, feed them bananas, and grind our organs! We are
constantly researching the best nutrition for them:  It’s like folks buying Eukanuba and Iams, we buy food specifically made for  primates. We turn entire rooms in our homes into a surrogate jungle,  tree branches and all.  Sure we diaper them, they aren’t toilet trained very easily. [Yet] dogs will  still miss the target if ignored, and cats will find a place other than  their litter box. We only take on what we can handle!
Date reviewed: Feb 19, 2006 6:31 PM
Nickname: southzoo
Review: I find Baskin’s remarks to be self-serving and misleading in blaming  private owners as a group. I suppose that allowing the public including  Geraldo producers to feed the big cats under her care would not be for  attention? Is the pot greater than the kettle?
Date reviewed: Feb 17, 2006 5:29 AM
Nickname: Carole Baskin CEO Big Cat Rescue
Review: While those who own exotic animals often claim to love them as they  would their own children, I don’t think they would agree that children  should be bred for the amusement of others, kept in cages and then auctioned  off to the highest bidder or abandoned when the family’s situation changes.  What these people love is the attention that their pets solicit for them.
The question is not: Can some people provide a proper home? but is: Should  countless animals have to suffer so that the very few can have them as pets?

Date reviewed: Feb 15, 2006 3:43 PM
Nickname: Name withheld to protect the guilty Review: I would have to shoot down any bill supported by people who would slander black Americans by talking about animals as
being in a “slave trade.” Comparing human ownership of an animal to forced labor? This is just part of PETA’s plan: first they come for the monkeys, next the cats and
dogs.
Date reviewed: Feb 8, 2006 9:56 PM
Nickname: Raven
Review: I applaud all of the responsible owners fighting hard to keep their rights. Extreme Animal Rights activist organizations like PETA want ALL animals out of private hands. Responsibly owned exotic pets, including primates, are domestically bred. They come from responsible facilities that care about the long term survival of diverse
species. Habitat destruction and poaching remain the greatest threats to wildlife. Responsible breeding by skilled private owners are contributing to keeping the surviving captive gene pools healthy. Exotic ownership is not for everyone in the same way
that domestic pet ownership is not for everyone.
Date reviewed: Feb 8, 2006 9:15 PM
Nickname: Lauren
Review: Imagine a baby or toddler-aged human being forcibly removed from
his/her home and raised by animals of another species. There is little argument that a chimpanzee mother cares very well for her offspring, but humans need to be around other humans in an appropriate setting. The same goes for wild (non-domesticated) animals. As for the mention of zoos in these comments, you will never meet someone more
concerned about researching and implementing the highest quality care for animals. It is not true that home raised animals live longer than those in zoos, nor are homes regulated
as strenuously as accredited zoo facilities. There is no comparison between zoos and private homes in relation to the quality of life an animal enjoys.
Date reviewed: Feb 8, 2006 6:19 PM
Nickname: rtok88
Review: In reply to rickster1340, one can only say he should look for more
suitable (“classy”)people to associate with if his current circle can’t live up to the high standards of his two pet monkeys. Factually, he is wrong about monkeys not “lying, cheating or killing their own kind” –not only are monkeys and apes capable of deceit and other strategies to conceal their intentions, they can be remarkably aggressive against members of their own groups and other groups which they encounter while foraging (this is as true in the zoo as in the wild.) He’s made the mistake of idealizing them as “the
new noble savage”, an idea based on sentiment, not observation. Nonetheless
it is true that they make interesting and attractive pets. Let’s not even
get into lifelong toilet training.
Date reviewed: Feb 8, 2006 5:29 PM
Nickname: NewsVeiws
Review: I take issue with the ”love my monkey, touch my monkey” crowd. While there may not be anything such as Canine Immunodeficiency Virus (there IS such a thing as FIV, it has no effect on anything that is NOT Feline) there is such a thing as HIV. ALL Primates can carry and transmit this virus but only Chimps, Gorillas and Humans can actually contract this disease. Considering the fact that there is no cure or vaccine for HIV, it becomes a public health/general welfare issue. Because of that, I have no problem with restricting this. The other problem I have is what was ”the cool pet” of a
decade ago. Pigs. When the fad wore off, (and reality set in) many were abandoned. Just some things to think about…
Date reviewed: Feb 8, 2006 10:39 AM
Nickname: Debbie from Pinellas
Review: The majority of exotic animal owners are responsible, caring people who provide excellent care to their animals. They’re required to follow strict regulations and permit requirements overseen by various government agencies such as the U.S. epartment of Agriculture, the U.S. Department of Interior, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, CITES, the Animal Welfare Act, the Endangered Species Act, the Lacey Act, city,
county and state regulations as well as existing animal welfare and public safety laws.
Regulations serve to protect the public, the animal and the owner, while bans result in turning responsible, law-abiding citizens into criminals. Bans also lead to many pets being confiscated and homeless. A select few may end up under the care of total strangers in a strange environment at a sanctuary but the majority will not. This is the dirty secret animal rights groups don’t want you to know. Banning does not help animals: it kills them!

From: BOB PITT <azooforu@…
Date: Mon Feb 20, 2006  9:30 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] PETA release, circus elephants  azooforu

I say screw it !!  I’m going after Lisa Wathan
tomarrow.  We’ll see what she knows and from where she learned it…  PETA is no biggy here, my lane is ½ mile back in the woods and the cats could always use some extra vitamin K in their diet.

— Ray <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com … wrote:

None of these people had any real experience when  they started. Tippi, Asvestas, Baskin, Quist, the AR people, etc.

It doesn’t take any knowledge or talent to cage up an animal and throw food
at it and never do anything else with it. Or to issue press releases and say
how cruel captivity is.

What’s galling is seeing them treated like the ultimate fount of knowledge
and hearing them damn every other person who has these animals, some of whom
know a hundred times more.

Their fallback position is always that the rest are sinners and immoral and
shouldn’t be exploiting and having these animals anyway.

But nobody in the old media examines _their_ credentials. They take their
claims as truth and other AR people vouch for them.

But anyone who opposes them has to prove who they are, get belittled, brushed off, etc.

Aren’t double standards great?

Ray

From: <tigers9@…
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] PETA release,
circus elephants

Well, when u think aboit it what EXPERT credentials do peopel like Baskin
or Quist have, Quist wnats to enlarge her place and get tigers, but what
does she REALLY know abouthandlign tigers? Just because she has one old
tiger, played with few cubs and witnessed few tiger transports???
These peopel look down onus but we pet owners or trainers withhands one
with big cats have more experience then peope like Quist.
Z

From:   “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com …
Date:   2006/02/19 Sun PM 09:09:42 PST
To:   <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject:   Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] PETA release,
circus elephants

I seem to recall looking into her last year and only finding her being an
expert desk jockey. No actual animal experience and no credentials. Maybe
well-read, maybe not. Just a long history with every AR group. They seem
to  share her or something.

Like some celebrities who are famous for being famous (Paris Hilton) these
experts are “experts” because they say they are and others say they are.

Ray

From: “chimps” <chimps@…
Date: Sat Feb 18, 2006  7:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] FL: Carole’s take on Saturday  luvgr8apes

Too funny, Linda!   <big grin   ;)

I was set up by several of the protesters.. One a blonde which I will not mention her name faked herself off to me as Carole Baskins asking me what I had in my car and did I have a monkey in there.. I caught myself and just uttered a couple of profane words and walked away.. lol…. Then of course Vernon just had to try to make me use the more gutter lingo which I happen to know quite well on occasion by telling me that we had a little problem, my monkey which was in his wifes care had opened the cage and was up in a tree.

From: Linda Hunnicutt
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] FL: Carole’s take on Saturday

I was there and only saw about 3 cars go into the Cat Rescue. I did see the
fake Bill Clinton emerge and he did look like the real thing, only thing was
missing was his girlfriends dress did not have the stains on it…..!   And he
was not smoking a cigar.  Now as far as us doing her a favor?  Don’ t think so.
Even one of the candidates for office read our literature and grabbed a sign
with us.  Yep that is true. have photos to prove it.  I have never seen such a
populated area to have a Big Cat rescue located in.  It amazed me to think of
her telling legislators how dangerous a cat in the back yard is and how it could
hurt the public yet she is right there in the middle of restaurants and malls
and she has had an escape.. And she had no news coverage either.. Except for the
TampaTribune was called about the fire truck and Ambulance that drove in there
with lights flashing and sirens going?  Never did find out about that either?&nb
from harrassing her took the flyers and eased up on us after getting a glance at
that information.

All in all it was a good demonstration other than the fact my temper was
already known and I was set up by several of the protesters.. One a blonde which
I will not mention her name faked herself off to me as Carole Baskins asking me
what I had in my car and did I have a monkey in there.. I caught myself and just
uttered a couple of profane words and walked away.. lol…. Then of course
Vernon just had to try to make me use the more gutter lingo which I happen to
know quite well on occasion by telling me that we had a little problem, my
monkey which was in his wifes care had opened the cage and was up in a tree.  Of
course that didn’t phase me a bit.. Yeah right. Well they got me pretty good and
learned a few new words I suspect..lol.

It was a fabulous occasion as far as I was concerned, I got to put faces
with names and learned there are a lot of very dedicated people working to
prevent our losing our animals and made me even more determined to do the most
that is possible with what we have to work with.   There will be a next time
with more time to prepare and we will expose her to the people who seem to be
blind to her shortcommings.

Keep tuned in folks it ain’t over till the fat lady sings and I haven’t even
taken the first voice lesson yet….Linda

From: Tim Stoffel <tim@…
Date: Sun Feb 19, 2006  2:07 am
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: Carole Baskin/Lewis ?from year 2000  timbalionguy

On Sat, 2006-02-18 at 18:27 -0500, Ray wrote:

The game is played this way: demonize your opponents to keep people from supporting them. Teach them that they are nuts, sickos, etc. That keeps people from coming together to fight you.

It’s worked for thousands of years.

And this is about the only sure-fire thing that will work against AR.

For the lions,
Tim Stoffel

From: Tim Stoffel <tim@…
Date: Fri Feb 17, 2006  1:57 am
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carole- BCR comments back at us in Business week  timbalionguy

On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 23:56 -0500, SOUTHZOO@… wrote:
_
()

Nickname: Carole Baskin CEO Big Cat Rescue
Review: While those who own exotic animals often claim to love  them as they  would their own children, I don’t think they would agree that  children should be bred for the amusement of others, kept in cages and then  auctioned off to the highest bidder or abandoned when the family’s situation  changes.

I wonder if Carole loves any of her animals? If someone walked in there and killed half of her cats, I bet her response wouldn’t be ‘good riddance’!

What  these people love is the attention that their pets solicit for  them. The question is not: Can some people provide a proper home? but is: Should countless animals have to suffer so that the very few can have them as pets?

She’s probably one of those that believe that 90 percent of exotic animals die in the first two years.

For the lions,
Tim Stoffel

From: Tim Stoffel <tim@…
Date: Tue Feb 14, 2006  3:38 am
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] CWPA Deadline is March 2  timbalionguy

HOW DO WE GET THIS CAT-MURDERER TO SHUT UP? She sounds just like someone else we know.

BTW, how did the protest go outside her place a couple days back?

For the lions (who I hope aren’t found in her place),
Tim Stoffel

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
Date: Mon Feb 13, 2006  9:39 pm
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] CWPA Deadline is March 2  zbrubruff

Carol Baskin is urging people to remove USDA exemptions.
Z
http://www.catlaws.com
<http://www.catlaws.com
&type=ML

Stop Interstate Sale of Big Cats as Pets
After his pet tiger escaped and was shot Tarzan was able to get a 40.00 USDA
permit to buy more baby tigers. Please help us stop this sort of insanity.

In 2003 a law was passed that made it illegal to sell big cats across state
lines as pets but the law lacked the technical teeth to be enforced. The
Senate unanimously passed S.1415 to correct that flaw last year but the
House hasn’t adopted the language yet and time is running out. Despite the
House not doing their part to end this dangerous activity, the US Fish and
Wildlife Service has proposed rules that would help end the trade in big
cats, and they are considering input until March 2, 2006. Their proposal has
some flaws that you can help us fix. One flaw is that anyone with a 40.00
permit from USDA is exempt. Please Take Action by and let your government
know this is important to you.
To read the entire proposed Rule go here:
http://www.catlaws.com but be sure to
come back here to help us with your brief letter.
http://www.catlaws.com
<http://www.catlaws.com
&type=ML

From: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:46 AM
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] CWPA Deadline is March 2

From Captain West:

All,

I have attached a Federal Register notice regarding the federal Captive Wildlife Safety Act and the US Fish and Wildlife Service’s interpretation of  its content.  We will not meet as a group before the closing date for comments which is on March 2nd, 2006 so please accept this as an FYI and comment personally to the USFWS if you desire.

See you at the next meeting.

John
Captain John D. West
Division of Law Enforcement
Investigations Section
“Patrol, Protect, Preserve”
(850) 488-6253
E-mail: John.West@…
Website: www.MyFWC.Com

From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com …
Date: Sun Feb 12, 2006  4:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin  runeraion

Y’know, I was so busy yesterday I forgot about the protest.

There isn’t a word about it in the media.

From: “Heather M” <grizzly_bear_mom@…
To: <phoenix_exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:55 AM
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin

What ever happened at the protest yesterday?   Also, I toured her facility
a few weeks ago what a wreck, I cant believe the State of Florida and the
USDA allows her caging.
Hog rings!!  I wouldn’t house large hook bills in caging secured with hog
rings.  There is no way these cages meet the structural sound criteria of
the state of Florida. .
Who is she to criticize anyone?                 Heather

From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com …
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006  8:49 pm
Subject: Re: Fw: [Phoenix_Exotics] I need something cleared up Regarding our posts  runeraion

But the state could pass some laws covering sales to the public so this
bears watching.

And fighting.

Unconstitutional laws get passed all the time. They get enforced until
someone stands up and makes an example of themselves in court.

Never say never.

Ray

From: <Bigcats10@aol.com
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Phoenix_Exotics] I need something cleared up Regarding our
posts

In a message dated 2/9/2006 2:52:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ARIGERMAN@… writes:

as for  possible new law, i have already lobbied the group that counts FWC
uit does not wanr it and it will work through legislative  people

Exactly, and FWC has full authority to regulate exotic wildlife.

The proposed action is listed on Ms. Baskin’s website which was initiated
by her.
_http://www.bigcatrescue.org/
(http://www.bigcatrescue.org/blog.htm)

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006  2:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Florida  iluvclydesda…

What’s the deal with these people?!

We had a 10′ boa constrictor or python for a 6th grade classroom pet in
Elementary school and no one blinked an eye. Now if your neighbor has one
people freak!! More small pets get squashed by cars than get swallowed by a
pet snake. Give me a break. Oh now I see they want to lump in other exotics
in as well.

This society has gotten so into safety and sterilization, its driving me
nuts! Here is the latest safety craze at my supermarket, seat belts for the
shopping carts – required!!! ugh

One thing I need to stress regarding this bill is the breeding situation.
Banning breeding will highly limit the amount of genetic diversity in an
animal population. Though controls can be made so that the animal breed
doesn’t overpopulate, banning breeding outright will not fix the problem.
Banning the sale of such animals will also not solve the problem and
actually make it more difficult to for state animal control officers to
enforce. All this would just go underground and there will be a huge lack of
control on the breeding because it will go undocumented just as there is in
drug trafficking.

I know I’m preaching to the choir but want to give my thanks to lndmonk for
bringing this to our attention.

I will send my 2 cents to the Governor and state congress people ASAP even
though I’m not from Florida.

-Bob
(Its my God Given right to responsibly own a lion and support those who do.)

From: <lndmonk@yahoo.com
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:51 AM
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] Florida

A bill is going to be presented in the house  tomorrow possibly called the
“Python Act or Bill”.  It is being presented  by Rep Bill Posey  district
24 (1850-487-5053) and Rep Poppell district 29 (850- 488-3006).

The actual bill or number could not be found yet  but it is to stop the
breeding and selling of exotics in Florida. Not sure which  exotics yet.

Carol Baskins is going to be at a press conference  in Tallahassee today
to support it.

Just getting information on this and will let you  know clarifications as
they come.  Please get involved in this  one!

_Simply~Simian  Inc._ ()
_Protest Big Cat Rescue and  Carole Baskins _
()

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2006  2:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Florida  iluvclydesda…

What’s the deal with these people?!

We had a 10′ boa constrictor or python for a 6th grade classroom pet in
Elementary school and no one blinked an eye. Now if your neighbor has one
people freak!! More small pets get squashed by cars than get swallowed by a
pet snake. Give me a break. Oh now I see they want to lump in other exotics
in as well.

This society has gotten so into safety and sterilization, its driving me
nuts! Here is the latest safety craze at my supermarket, seat belts for the
shopping carts – required!!! ugh

One thing I need to stress regarding this bill is the breeding situation.
Banning breeding will highly limit the amount of genetic diversity in an
animal population. Though controls can be made so that the animal breed
doesn’t overpopulate, banning breeding outright will not fix the problem.
Banning the sale of such animals will also not solve the problem and
actually make it more difficult to for state animal control officers to
enforce. All this would just go underground and there will be a huge lack of
control on the breeding because it will go undocumented just as there is in
drug trafficking.

I know I’m preaching to the choir but want to give my thanks to lndmonk for
bringing this to our attention.

I will send my 2 cents to the Governor and state congress people ASAP even
though I’m not from Florida.

-Bob
(Its my God Given right to responsibly own a lion and support those who do.)

From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com …
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2006  2:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Contact Geraldo  runeraion

Who? Big Cat Rescue? It’s been covered here in excruciating detail the last
month. Just go to the Yahoogroups site and read the messages you passed
over. In a nutshell:

The story starts with Carole’s husband’s dream.

Big Cat Rescue got its start as Wildlife On Easy Street (WOES) back in the
mid 90s.

It was founded by millionaire Don Lewis, who made his fortune in real
estate, trucking, and other ventures.

WOES was started as a unique bed & breakfast where visitors were allowed to
come and learn about exotic cats and, after a bit of instruction, were
allowed to spend nights in a cabin divided in half – one side for the tiger,
lion, etc.they would spend the night with and the other for the guests. A screened
wall separated them.

They bred and bought animals in a fashion similar to Tippi Hedren years ago.
They published books on having exotic cat pets. Things were sweet for the
millionaire and his second wife but they were about to sour.

Tired of hassles from government and AR people Don Lewis purchased 200 acres
of land near Begaces, Costa Rica to move the operation to. This is when
trouble started for him.

Life in the USA is easy, convenient and comes with all civilized amenities.
At the best, life in Costa Rica would be uncomfortable and basics such as
electricity undependable. Never mind good highways, malls, clubs, spas,
entertainment, etc. Carole was well less than thrilled and made it known to
Don.

Don started setting things up and was preparing to transport vehicles there
on Monday, August 18th, 1997. He supposedly left home to do this and drop
off some signs at his real estate agent’s office and was never seen again.

The signs were found outside the real estate agent’s office when they
arrived that day but nobody had seen Don.

The next day, August 19, Don’s wife Carole filed a missing person report
with the sheriff’s office.

Don’s van was found the following day at Pilot Country Airport in
Springhill. The manager said it had been there a couple of days, parked on
the grass between some planes and hwy 52. The keys to the van were still in
it, tossed on the
floor. Nothing of note was found in it.

Then authorities got a tip that Don and Carole were having marital
difficulties and that Don had gone to court 2 months before claiming Carole
had threatened to kill him. The judge turned down his petition for
protection and Don went on living with Carole until he disappeared.

Don’s children from his first marriage accused Carole of killing him and
feeding him to the big cats. Deputies searched Wildlife On Easy Street but
found no evidence.

Did Don Lewis just up and fly away to Costa Rico, leaving everything in
life, including his kids, friends, and millions, behind? Or did someone just
want it to look that way?

In 2002 Carole got Don declared legally dead and inherited everything.

In 2004 Carole married board member Howard Baskin on November 1st and is now
known as Carole Baskin.

Following Don’s disappearance Wildlife On Easy Street turned 180 degrees. It
no longer promoted ownership but opposed it and joined AR and sanctuary
groups and started spouting the party line against ownership.

The cats that Don and Carole had bred and bought suddenly got “stories”
about how they were saved from abuse and abandonment. A few animals were
taken in and their stories embellished similarly.

The move to Costa Rica obviously never happened and it is unclear what
became of the land. Sold to developers? Defaulted on?

Carole decided the name of her operation did not sound good and changed it
to Big Cat Rescue. She is now Florida’s version of Carole Asvestas (Wild
Animal Orphanage aka Animal Sanctuary Of The United States) and campaigns
for bans countrywide and seeks to change Florida’s constitution if she can’t
get them to ban more ownership.

Stories abound of questionable fund raising, improper keeping and treatment,
and shady deals. See the recent messages here for more.

I will let those engaged in the protests fill you in on their actions and
reasons but that too has all been here for weeks.

What is missing is any media interest in telling the true story of this
terrible string of events. Even Geraldo’s show will be promoting them
instead of investigating them.

This is wrong.

Ray

From: <lndmonk@yahoo.com
To: <monkeyyardsale@yahoogroups.com; <repo-pac@yahoogroups.com;
<simply_simian@yahoogroups.com; <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com;
<SSAMembership@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] Protest information:

The Protest against the Big Cat Rescue and Carole Baskins will be on this
coming Saturday starting at 9 AM thru 1 PM.  Meet at the corner of Easy
Street and Citrus road.  Please dress in a manner that will not reflect  badly on
the protestors.   This is an important protest as Ms. Baskins  is one of the
very ones who is influencing legislators against private owners of  exotics.
Not just cats.  All exotics.  If she can be shown for exactly  what she is her
influence will be nullified.  This is very very important  and anyone that
can be there should try and attend.
NO YELLING OR SCREAMING OR PROFANITY. simply hand out flyers and answer
questions.  DO NOT BRING YOUR PETS.  Vernon Yates will be spokesman  and
talk to the media which will be in attendance.

Lets show our support for this man who has stood up for private owners for
years and continues to do so.

I will be leaving NC on Thursday for Florida and have room for a few
companions if you want to attend and need a ride let me know asap.

Linda

_Simply~Simian  Inc._ ()
_Support Vernon Yates  Demonstration_
()

From: Tim Stoffel <tim@…
Date: Sat Jan 28, 2006  2:37 am
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carole Baskins is on the Hillsnborough Co. Animal Advisory Committee  timbalionguy

On Fri, 2006-01-27 at 14:24 +0000, Dana wrote:
Hello Group! I am a new member. I have the large macaws for pets. I
live in Hillsborough County Florida.
Carole Lewis Baskins is on the Hillsborough County Animal Advisory
Commmittee.The Animal Advisory Committee is an appointed group of
people to develope the long range plans for the Animal Ordinances and
Policies of this county. The appointed memebers of this committtee are
also members of animal activist groups. So much for being neutral, all
seem to have personal agenda to push thru.(mandatory microchipping ect.)
I object to Carole being on this committee. I would like any feedback
that would give me factual info on her.
It is bad enough that she would like to take our right to own exotics
away, but now to “regulate” how we own our pets(dogs and cats).
Thanks, Dana

Expose and discredit them!

For the lions,
Tim Stoffel

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2006  10:14 am
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] URGENT  iluvclydesda…

Well you caught me with nothing but dust mites in my wallet!! lol I just got
done paying a huge tax bill and I’m up in Ohio. I have an idea though and
that’s to spread the word about this to other animal groups like
DraftnDrive, Some of your primate sites. There is another one called Tigers
as Pets too.

Hope this helps.
-Bob

From: <lndmonk@yahoo.com
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] URGENT

In a message dated 1/24/06 8:05:53 PM Central Standard Time,
bob@… writes:

I’m with  him in spirit.

I was hoping for more than spiritual help..lol… I am going to be  going
down there I am pretty sure, and am busy printing out flyers now.  We  are
also making a booklett of Carole Baskins life to mail out to the polititians
she is courting now.. lets see how they like being associated with a suspected
murderer?  And a admitted liar and forger.. Susan already admitted to the
cops she lied n the stand about the will and her name was forged on it.. too
bad  she didn’t tell the truth the first time and this all may have had a different
outcome.

Is there no one on this list that can take the time for a Fl vacation now?
People need to start standing up for what they believe and say..  bullys always back down when faced with real opposition.

_Simply~Simian  Inc._ ()

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
Date: Tue Jan 24, 2006  11:03 pm
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] URGENT  zbrubruff

I live too far but please keep us posted:-)
Z

From: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lndmonk@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:42 AM
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] URGENT

OK guys we have a guy that is willing to stand up and be heard… Vernon
Yates in Fl is going to picket Carole Baskins and her big Cat rescue
Facility during the upcoming event at her place with the polititians ( major sucking
up) and needs help… Anyone that can attend the demonstration please get in
touch  with Vernon.  I am personally planning on trying to get there.. If
you can help in any other way please do so. He will need funds to print flyers, but

mostly he needs support.  He has fought this woman for a long time with no help and should have been supported all along since Carole has made it very clear she is against us all as private owners… Lets help him out…  Linda

You can also donate to just help Vernon with his facility since Carole has done all possible to discredit and dishonor him for his stance against her. I am sure he would appreciate some help with his animals at this time  also.

_Simply~Simian  Inc._ ()

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
Date: Tue Jan 24, 2006  4:14 am
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] carole Baskin petition  zbrubruff

Here is the story of these cougar kittens as told/seen/imagined by Carol
Baskin.
She makes people feel sorry for these cubs, but her petition is against
private ownership, gee, how deceitful IMHO.
Z
http://www.bigcatrescue.org/rescuenewscubs.htm

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006  2:06 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Kids, Cats & Candidates-Carol Baskin press release  iluvclydesda…

Ok this Carole person is a true whack Job.

From: <lndmonk@yahoo.com
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Kids, Cats & Candidates-Carol Baskin press
release

From the WEB:

_Welcome to Wildlife Rescue and  Rehab_ (http://www.wrrfl.org/)

Follow up on the “disappearance” of Carole’s Lewis  Baskin’s former
husband, Don Lewis, in 1997, case # 97-069-358 with the  Hillsborough County
Sheriff’s Dept.

On Thursday January 19th a cold case detective paid a visit to  Susan
Aronoff, a former friend of Carole and staff member of Wildlife On Easy
Street/Big Cat Rescue. During this interview Susan admitted to the detective  that it
was not her signature on Don’s supposed will which  appeared after he
disappeared. Susan revealed that Carole had  forged her name as a witness to Don’s will
and that she was told by  Carole to appear in court and say that the signature
was in fact her own.

Susan further admitted that she perjured herself in  court out of  fear of Carole, as she had cats boarded at Easy  Street and believed they could be in danger if she did not cooperate.

From: lndmonk@yahoo.com
Date: Mon Jan 23, 2006  9:01 am
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Kids, Cats & Candidates-Carol Baskin press release  lndmonk

In a message dated 1/23/06 4:56:22 AM Central Standard Time,  tim@…
writes:

This  woman doesn’t mess around!
She’s mis-educating children and politicians at  the same time. Perhaps a
whole bunch of us need to visit that day wearing  T-shirts with the TRUTH
on them!

there are already people out there insisting on something being done  about
her..On Thurs Jan 19th a cold case detective showed up at the home of one  of
the supposed witnesses on the will.This witness admitted to the  detective that
it was not her signature on the will, that Carole forged it,  and the witness’ perjured herself in court under fear of Carole, as her  cats were boarded there.
That same detective is following up on several other peoples information on
her.

Why don’t we all simply write the polititians stating what we all know  about
her and her so called rescue operation?  I am sure they would not  want to be
associated with someone that was suspected of feeding her vanished  husband
to the cats?

Hopefully in the near future the whole thing will be resolved so Don’s children and friends can get on with their lives knowing the truth about his dissappearance. There are agencys working on it now.

_Simply~Simian  Inc._ ()

From: “chimps” <chimps@…
Date: Tue Jan 17, 2006  9:32 pm
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin: link w/interesting info re BCR/WOES  luvgr8apes

Here’s an interesting site where someone finally has the cajones to stand up to
Carole and expose her true agenda and lies on an actual website.  There’s also a
link to an article from a People magazine special edition titled True Crime
Stories with photos of Carole and her mysterious ‘missing’ millionaire husband.
Check it out..

From: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Nevin#bios
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:04 AM
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin: Video of ShereKhan free

This leads me to believe that Carol is mis informing the public so that she can set the rules of owning exotics on her terms as other groups like PETA and HSUS are doing.

THEREFORE we must resolve an action that we as a group must stand up together to
fight off these vicious lies and mis information and to band together to help
those folks (NOT FIGHT AGAINST) who are at risk for having their animals taken
away and fight against laws banning or highly restricting exotic animals.

Why in the world are we not suing PETA and Carol for making up lies? funny but I
feel like we are getting walked over and stomped on. Are there any Legal Eagles
out there that can come up with some way to shut these organizations down?

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
Date: Tue Jan 17, 2006  1:56 pm
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin: Video of ShereKhan free  zbrubruff

Just not to create confusion, the tape was made at Carol’s place,Wildliofe
on easy Street,NOT Dennis place  one week after Carol got ShereKhan from
Dennis. SK is obviously normally behaved healthy tiger cub.
Z

From: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Nevin
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:04 AM
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin: Video of ShereKhan free

I got the video from Z and I thank you. I see someone who is playing with SK

(for short) as a cub in a small water tub. Cubs are different from adults duh but in my humble opinion this animal not a candidate for removal from the property unless the rescuers and prove without a reasonable doubt (my grandfather was a municipal judge) that the cats where mistreated in any way

shape or form and given adequate care and security. From what I saw in this tape I saw a person playing with a cub more gently and caring than an adult mother tiger would. This leads me to believe that Carol is mis informing the public so that she can set the rules of owning exotics on her terms as other groups like PETA and HSUS are doing.

THEREFORE we must resolve an action that we as a group must stand up together to fight off these vicious lies and mis information and to band together to help those folks (NOT FIGHT AGAINST) who are at risk for having their animals taken away and fight against laws banning or highly restricting exotic animals.

Why in the world are we not suing PETA and Carol for making up lies? Funny but I feel like we are getting walked over and stomped on. Are there any Legal Eagles out there that can come up with some way to shut these organizations down?

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] Carol Baskin: Video of ShereKhan free

I just made 2MB mpeg video of ShereKhan from Carol’s tape Big Cat
Companions, and who ever wants to see it email me privately and I will
send it to u so u can see how she is lying on her website. I don’t know Dennis
Hill, but this is disseminating lies against him (in my humble opionion)what
she is saying on her website .
All I am interested is the truth, and all u breeders/dealers on this list,
see this story and be careful who u sell to, money is not everything, u  need
to fight these lies some scamstuaries tell about their animals and how they
got them.U guys have USDA transfer papers, PROVE it how some sanctuaries
are  buying pets not rescuing, u have the official proof.
Z
Tigers9@…
Read and compare with video

http://www.bigcatrescue.org/big_cat_news_files/2005/sherekhanownershutdn.htm

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
Date: Tue Jan 17, 2006  11:18 am
Subject: RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] What’s the rest of the story?  zbrubruff

I just read what she had to say about Shere Khan on her website, this is the tiger featured in the video I have, Big Cat Companions that Carol and Don used to sell back then.
They show tiger on the tape, tiger looks great, they say they just got him a week prior making this tape from loving a home and that his ‘only’ problem was he was biting.

Then they admit this is their first tiger.Carol and Don obviously had no idea how to train  a  tiger , it is normal for young animals like this to be biting, but judging/looking at the tape Shere Khan was NOT bad at all. Dennis Hill needs to fight this accusations, using this tape would be a good start,the tape shows that 1 week after arriving to Carol his conditions was great, if he was as sick as carol claims on her website, he codln’t look so
good on the tape, especially since she herself narrates it how loving tiger’s previous home was,. Can u please fwd this email to Dennis? If Dennis is bad, carol needs real facts not lies to shut him down
Zuzana

From: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marsha
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:36 AM
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] What’s the rest of the story?

Carole (Lewis) Baskin of Big Cat Rescue has recently sent out an appeal to shut down Shere Khan’s breeder, Dennis Hill of Indiana. Shere Khan arrived at Wildlife on Easy Street as a cub in 1995.  He is the star attraction at BCR.  I hand fed him a couple of chicken legs back before they started using tongs.  WHY the sudden campaign more
than 10 years later?  What’s the rest of the story???

http://www.bigcatrescue.org/big_cat_news_files/2005/sherekhanownershutdn.htm

From: “Gini” <ginival@…
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2006  6:29 pm
Subject: Tigers9…Carole Lewis Baskin tape  ginigoneape

Could you please copy the tape you speak of and mail it to me? I will be happy to pay you to do this. Carole is here in my area and her ‘missing’ ex was a friend. I have a file on her and we have been looking for a copy of this tape that she sold along with her book about keeping exotic cats as pets. She is buttering up all the local county commissioners and speaking out against us and we want to be able to show them her true character. Yes, of course people can ‘change’ but she has so much in her past that accumulatively you have to at least wonder about her credibility and character. Contact me at home please.
Gini

From: lndmonk@yahoo.com
Date: Fri Jan 6, 2006  11:09 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Dear Carol of former Wildlife on Easy street  lndmonk

In a message dated 1/6/06 9:22:53 PM Central Standard Time, otaije@…
writes:

http://capwiz.com/bigcatrescue/issues/alert/?alertid=8349821&queueid=[capwiz:
queue_id_

I did just taht and wrote  a letter:  copy below:

Thank you for using Big Cat Rescue Mail System

Message sent to the  following recipients:
Carole Baskin
Message text follows:

Linda  Hunnicutt
secretary
Simply simian inc
po box 671
winnie, TX  77665-0671

January 6, 2006

[recipient address was inserted  here]

Dear [recipient name was inserted here],

Mr. Ken  Hagan
County Commissioner – District 2
County Center, 2nd Floor
Tampa, FL 33602

Dear Commissioner Hagan,

Please support the  proposed rezoning application RZ 06-0115 for Big Cat
Rescue.

Carole  baskins has used her cats for her own profit for years, she
threatened to  kill her husband who was a millionaire and when he had
restraining orders  put on her he dissappeared? Never to be found yet she
acquired his  estate  thoruhg what has been reported as a fake will.  she
has  been written up by the USDA for abuse of animals in her care and now
wants  the public support?  My God what a lot of nerve..

Why has her  husbands dissappearance never been fully investigated?

Did the  cats eat well in 1997:?

Thank you for considering my request that support  Big Cat Rescue in their
rezoning application RZ  06-0115.

Sincerely,

Linda Hunnicutt
409  6734891
secretary
Simply simian inc

_Simply~Simian  Inc._ ()

Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Z and others re: Carole Lewis Baskins  leiloublue

In a message dated 1/6/2006 2:36:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
ginival@… writes:

Let’s  not forget that this self-righteous woman who speaks of ethics and morals  is still the main suspect in the 1997 disappearence of her millionnaire  husband, Don Lewis who has been declared dead, although his body has never  been found. He filed for a restraining order (which was denied) after she  threatened to kill him just weeks before he
disappeared!

She will  blame all her previous breeding and selling for pets on Don, who  conveniently isn’t here to defend himself, but It was Carole who dealt directly with a local pet shop on buying baby bobs and  servals.

Her website is full of lies about the origin and treatment of  her cats as well as her rantings about other private owners, as many of  her former volunteers can attest to. If anyone wants to read more on this hypocrite contact me privately.

From: BOB PITT <azooforu@…
Date: Fri Jan 6, 2006  2:27 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Dear Carol of former Wildlife on Easy street  azooforu

Hell no her ground ain’t strong !!!  Her whole place is on a former land fill.  material still pushes up thru the ground.  Call her what she is a slum lord and animal WHORE !!!

— SOUTHZOO@… wrote:

I’d say that this “East Coast Tippi” type is quite  aware that her transparency would be seen by our  group. To take such high moral ground, one would  think she’d be first in line to explain to us how  wrong we are. Maybe her ground isn’t so strong. What
is it? The truth shall set you free?

Rhonda

From: Z <tigers9@…
To: MakeADifference@…;
info@…
Cc: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:58:03 -0800
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] Dear Carol of former
Wildlife on Easy street

Dear Carol, since (in my humble opinion)  you happen  to be one of the most
hypocritical&controversial person in exotic animal  world, I have been watching you for a while, I remember your “guests  sleeping with the big cats  for lots of $$$ in your cottages ” business venture  to your selling horrible  quality video tapes on how to breed and raise exotic cats pets ( YES, I own  your tape) .

You bought and bred many exotic cats, you had a volunteer badly  injured by  leopard in 1998, so I don’t understand what made you  one day to turn around and become a god and ‘non profit rescue’ and criticize the rest of us ethical exotic owners. Remember the saying: people who throw rocks shouldn’t live in glass houses? You have a very colorful past, not a very good resume for a wannabe preacher.

And while you criticize others, you have $50 dollars a head feed the tiger business venture http://www.bigcatrescue.org/feeding_tours.htm
with welded fence (4×4 inch?) where visitors can easily put there hand
inside the tiger cage during their feeding ? See the video:

278

You criticize Phoenix members, while you yourself keep the animals in cages and engage in activities that can be dangerous and you do it for the entertainment/amusement  of people who pay you.

When we invited you to speak at our Phoenix Exotics Las Vegas meeting this year, this was your reply (posted on our website with your permission):
http://web.archive.org/web/20081003134134/http://www.phoenixexotics.org:80/p2006meeting.html
CEO of Big Cat Rescue an Educational Sanctuary Home ,Carole Baskin was also invited to be a Guest Speaker for the upcoming 2006 Phoenix exotics Annual Meeting. “Phoenix Exotics has long stood for everything that I oppose when it comes to ethics. I cannot imagine your group would invite me there for anything but a stoning. I speak for the
animals, not for the selfish people who would breed them for life in cages for their own
amusement, regardless of their lame justifications for it. ”

Sincerely
Zuzana Kukol, VP
www.phoenixexotics.org
http://www.phoenixexotics.org/

From: lndmonk@aol.com
To: monkeyyardsale@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [monkeyyardsale] Caorle Baskins.

In a message dated 3/10/06 3:06:36 PM Central Standard Time, lndmonk@aol.com writes:
No Vernon didn’t I did… with Vernons information..lol…. and with all the messages we have sent out, (you and me)  she is being removed from the commission board and they will be doing a TV expose’ on her next week.. the tv crew is out at Vernons now.. he keeps calling me and having me speak to the reporter on behalf of simply simian… so we are in the forefront anyway…. Gloria is the one that wanted the website.. she is our ace in the hole, a professional lobbyist.. doing a crack up job at it too.. and she is thinking we are angels as we put that site up for her.. she was supposed to send you a check for the cost a few days ago.. so when you get it that is what it is for… not a membership… from Gloria Johnson…

I thought this was going to Karen please you guys keep this quiet…

Monkey Transport Fund ( March 2006)
SIMPLY SIMIAN INC.
Repo-Pac
Grannys against Peta
Warrior Grannys strike against Peta.

From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com …
Date: Tue Mar 14, 2006  3:26 pm
Subject: Carole Baskin Slams Lion Movie  runeraion

Even South Africa isn’t safe from her…

Inbred Lions Shouldn’t Be Glamorized

I am appalled at the ignorance behind the creation of such a film and those who would support it about how the white lions are produced. If the average person is equally uninformed then this sort of propaganda will surely lead to more suffering as all of the back yard breeders start trying to fill the new need for white lions by inbreeding their cats to the point of deformity and death. To learn more about how the white coats are created in lions and tigers read more at: http://www.bigcatrescue.org/white_tigers.htm

Carole Baskin, MakeADifference@… [13 Mar 2006 15:26]

From: Bigcats10@aol.com
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  2:35 pm
Subject: RE; Expose on BCR  bigcats10

Hi Folks,

An expose on BCR should air tonight at 5pm EST on Baynews9. It could  change,
but as of right now this is the schedule.

Vicki

From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com …
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  2:48 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] RE; Expose on BCR  runeraion

Record it!!!

Ray

From: “shelleen mathews” <katladysam@…
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  2:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] RE; Expose on BCR  katladysam

Hi Vicki… since I’m not in the BayNews9 coverage area do you know if there is
a link where I can view this after it’s aired?  Thanks… Shelleen

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  2:37 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] RE; Expose on BCR  iluvclydesda…

Thank for the heads up Vicki

Well for those who can’t tune in, is it possible you can report back to the
group on their findings? This sounds interesting… I wonder How warped it
will be – either pro or con…

Give Ty a hug for me!
-Bob

— In Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com, Bigcats10@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 3/16/2006 5:29:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cathspohrer@… writes:

I just  listened to Expose done on BCR and Carol  Baskin

Here is the link to the story:

_http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2006/3/16/149024.html

From: “slowswimmer1″thomaskirby169@hotmail.com<thomaskirby169@…
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  7:26 pm
Subject: Re: Expose on BCR  slowswimmer1

Isn’t it amazing how long she has gone on believing that her manure pile doesn’t stink?  Shocked and surprised that anyone would criticize her?

Has she ever really done the work?  Has she ever shoveled out a barn or litter box?  She does not act like someone who really works or think?  It just makes me want to rant.

From: “slowswimmer1″thomaskirby169@hotmail.com
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  6:59 pm
Subject: Re: Expose on BCR  slowswimmer1

Her greatest fear is a truth campaign.

Poor lady is going to have to live on less than fifty million dollars for the rest of her life if this keeps up.

She wants to whine about this being caused by people who are motivated against new legislation.  What motivates us but the lives of our animals?  She has enough money and gets enough money and she hurts other owners to do it.

From: lndmonk@yahoo.com
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  4:44 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] RE; Expose on BCR  lndmonk

In a message dated 3/16/06 3:05:27 PM Central Standard Time,
katladysam@… writes:

area do  you know if there is a link where I can view this after it’s aired?
Thanks… Shelleen

_http://www.baynews9.com/Home.html_ (http://www.baynews9.com/Home.html)

_Monkey  Transport Fund ( March 2006)_
(https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=repopac@aol.com&page
_style=PayPal&no_shipping=1&no_note=1
&tax=0&currency_code=USD&bn=PP-DonationsBF&charset=UTF-8)
_SIMPLY SIMIAN  INC._ ()

_Repo-Pac_ ()

_Grannys against  Peta_ ()
Warrior Grannys strike against Peta.

From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com …
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  5:40 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Expose on BCR  runeraion

“All this is being caused by those motivated against new legislation ”

Hey, you use propaganda on people then you better expect the truth in response.

Welcome to politics, Carole. Did you think it was all one-sided? That nobody would ask questions, ever?

When you hold yourself up as a paragon of morality and virtue you had better be spotless. When you judge others you should expect to be judged.

Welcome to reality. Hope you like it. More will come.

Ray

From: “Cathy” <cathspohrer@…
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  5:27 pm
Subject: Expose on BCR  cathspohrer2000

I just listened to Expose done on BCR and Carol Baskin

Bottom line??
It was told that Carol Baskin had said she has wanted the Largest Private Collection of exotics.

Carol was confronted with accusations that she has breed after1997,when she says she has stopped.

It was stated :
Bingtorongs where born there:
“?”

1998 Caracal litter of cubs born. Carol Baskins response:
” I dont know”

Pet shop owner has stated that she had a Serval that was bought by
Carol Baskin aka Big Cat Resuce for $1000.00

Taped recording of Carol Baskin saying how Tiger cub Shar Khan was
bottled fed and came from loving place.

Carol was asked if all exotics at her facilty came from abusive places:
” I think so”
Carol Baskin stated that some Leopards at her facility where born
into the pet rade market:
It was said by another BCR volunteer that those leopards had been born
at BCR

There was more but this was excellent in getting BCR exposed for what is really going on there and what she is attempting to do

Carol Baskin parting comment was:
“All this is being caused by those motivated against new legislation ”

On Mar 16, 2006, at 3:10 PM, Ray wrote:

It seems the matter gets darker:

She is also working with an AR group:

www.humaneusa.org/images/PrintOuts/PAC%2006%20Job%20Description%
20and%20Task%20List.xls

Carole Baskin runs the Florida branch:

http://www.humaneusa.org/humaneusafl.htm

SAOVA describes them:

An AR PAC. Members include HSUS, the Fund for Animals, Farm Sanctuary,
ASPCA, Doris Day Animal League, Animal Welfare Institute, The Ark
Trust,
Animal Rights Foundation of Florida, and others.

This is disturbing. Certainly a conflict of interest.

Ray

From: Raven Simons <raven@performanceaudio.com

Raven Ariana / Cables, Service	EXT 000
raven@performanceaudio.com
Raven works in our custom cable department. If you need some cable, connectors or custom cables, she can make it happen.

Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  5:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Oh, my! Was: re: Expose on BCR  ladyraven_69

Yuck!

This sounds terrible.  Can something be done?
Are you an FCF member?  I do know that there are several FCF members on this list.  I wanted to join FCF because I want to take the feline husbandry course and I thought they were for responsible private/ownership conservation breeding.

Raven

From: Bigcats10@aol.com
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  3:49 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR – FCF connection?  bigcats10

In a message dated 3/16/2006 3:45:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com … writes:

I’m sure  either her or her long time volunteer, Carolyne Clendinen, the newly  appointed FCF membership director would be more than glad to help you with  your study.  Just a thought…..

This is a joke, right? The membership Director of FCF is a volunteer at BCR and has access to addresses and such????

Please tell us this isn’t true…..

Vicki

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006  3:28 pm
Subject: Re: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  iluvclydesda…
Hello,

I asked before that you refer this question to Jeanne, our group moderator regarding Mr. Figg. She can fill you in on the details if that is what you need for your investigation. Please understand, I do not want to get involved more than I already have. He has caused enough trouble for me.
Please don’t take it the wrong way either. I’m not trying to be nasty.

-Bob

From: exoticanimals2@…
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006  2:35 pm
Subject: Re: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  exoticanimals3

Bob;
Your telling me and others to avoid him though you don’t give a reason why. I take it that you have had problems legally with him if your attorney is saying not to “get into it”. If there were a bookie man lurking around the corner, I don’t know about anyone else but I wold certainly like to know why I need to fear him in case I ever come across him. If you can’t apeak about this issue, anyone else know?
Jude

From: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
exoticanimals2@…
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 5:55 AM
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR

So do you know Mr. Figg personally? Does it really matter if this to be true about the parking lot, where someone sets up to do photo ops? I would think that the care and health of his animals are way more important then where the photo ops are. Lets weigh this out… a parking lot with a hugh arena with sunshine, fresh air, cleaning caging, healthy animals or like some of the things we saw on the video. Hmmmmm is that so tough?
Jude

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006  11:18 am
Subject: RE: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  zbrubruff

I didn’t not write that comment, I just copied and pasted it from the article comment website, I have no clue who cavedog is
Z

From: <exoticanimals2@…
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR

So Bob you know Mr. Figg personally? If not, what do you base such an opinion on?
Jude

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006  10:59 am
Subject: Re: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  iluvclydesda…

Jude,

I’d rather not get into it as advised from my attorney. Get it? It opens up a big can of worms. Just avoid him.

-Bob

From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com …
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006  12:29 am
Subject: Re: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  runeraion

That’s correct. It was announced on the list just this afternoon. Not a word about it before then.

PE would have to be pretty damn powerful to get something like that done in
2 hours!

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR

More comments:
big cat rescue
Posted By jerry on 03/16/2006 @ 08:27 PM
i CAN SEE IT NOW ALL THE PUSSIES are coming out of the woodwork

BCR
Posted By Roger Figg on 03/16/2006 @ 08:06 PM
I am well versed in the current big cat trade. I have been licensed for 20
some years by USDA. This station is being used to push a PETTY attack by the
members of www.phoenix_exotics@… If you jion the list the archives
show this was planned by PE members to harm BCR. If you go to a API report
on Phoenix Exotics, they need to CLEAN themselves.
Phoenix
list members have even attacked me in person. Is a private exotic ownership
group thats in support of ownership, Animal rights terrorists by attacking
others? Roger Figg www.DomesticPanthera.com www.CarnivoreConcepts.com

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  11:53 pm
Subject: Re: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  iluvclydesda…

I put a comment on BCR’s website representing my views and my views only. It
was not PE’s. I just wanted to clarify that. It was also not planned as an actual PE event. what a goofball.

Thank you.
-Bob

From: “Bob Nevin” <bob@…
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  11:48 pm
Subject: Re: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  iluvclydesda…

OH GOD!!! NOT HIM!!! <puke, gag, cough, spit up WHY THE HELL DID YOU POST
HIS NAME????!!! AAAAHHH !!! GRAB THE LYSOL QUICK TO DISINFECT OUR
COMPUTERS!!!!!! HE IS A CON MAN AND IS AN INTERNET PREDATOR!! DON’T BELIEVE
A FRIGGIN WORD HE SAID!!!!!

From: “Z” <tigers9@…
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  10:30 pm
Subject: RE: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  zbrubruff

Figg is a fruit
Posted By cavedog on 03/16/2006 @ 10:06 PM
Mr Figg is another of Ms. Baskin’s ilk. Check out this article
) that
details how he kept “wild” animals in a parking lot so you can get your picture taken. I’m sure he has his own version of this, which is fine. I’m all for free speech. In fact, I dedicated almost twenty years of my adult life to the preservation of his rights, some of which was spent in nameless jungles avoiding predators such as the ones he puts in cages in parking lots. One of the website he references is slick, yeah, it almost looks lifelike. He is simply cashing in on the “wild” animal trade. By preying on your sympathies for animals, he can line his pockets. Put the animals in a zoo, and go back to selling suck brooms door to door.

From: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raven Simons
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 5:07 PM
To: Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR

My 2 cents posted:

Thanks for this story.  Carol has actually been hurting the endangered cats she claims to care for. Bad enough that she lies about the origins of her cats to get donations, she goes further by trying to strip the legal rights of others. She seems to be all about legislative extinction of endangered felines everywhere.  Is this so she can have the largest and “only” collection of felines in the US?  This would certainly bring in the bucks for her facility.  I would like to see more new stories about the real heroes of
endangered felines, the responsible private owners trying desparately to save the diversity held within the existing US gene pools of these animals.  A story would be great about those unsung heroes that have tried to keep the Ocelot gene pools thriving and the consequences of the Lacey act on their efforts.  How about stories on those responsible private owners who love their cats and provide a life for them that would be the envy of many felines living in zoos and sanctuaries?  We can talk about Servals and Caracals.  It’s only a matter of time before these become endangered in their wild homelands.  Human encroachment, habitat destruction, and poaching are the biggest threat to all endangered species.  A big hand needs to be given to responsible private husbandry and conservation efforts!

“Z” <tigers9@…
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  10:29 pm
Subject: my comment:RE: comments:RE: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  zbrubruff

BCR
Posted By Zuzana on 03/16/2006 @ 10:27 PM
First of all, I would like to congratulate Chris Hawes for excellent job and having guts to expose the truth behind many so called sanctuaries. Too many journalists out there don’t do the research like she did, great job Chris. As for Ms. Carole Baskin’s claim as reported by Chris Hawes that “”She stood by her web site’s story of Shere Khan’s abuse, despite the video showing him standing on his hind legs. “He could lift himself, but just barely,” said Baskin.””,….hmmm,… well, I saw the video, it was a very happy and healthy tiger cub playing with volunteer. Carol herself narrates the video, saying she just got Shere khan 1 week ago and says that it came from a loving and nurturing home and then mentions how this tiger cub bites hard but that she was told he would outgrow it (this was Carol’s first pet tiger). Now, on ‘Big Cat Rescue’ website it says that he:” was far beyond salable and had sores rotting through his face from his rotten teeth,” Well, the video shows a very bouncy strong tiger with pretty healthy face that likes to bite in play, if he was as sick as Ms. Baskin claims, he wouldn’t be biting with rotten teeth. The  video/ picture don’t lie.

From: Bigcats10@aol.com
Date: Thu Mar 16, 2006  8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: RE; Expose on BCR  bigcats10

In a message dated 3/16/2006 8:36:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com … writes:

To all  the volunteers who spoke out – and we know there are more than those named  in the report – THANK YOU!!

Ray

BCR
Posted By WHACKM on 03/17/2006 @ 12:03 AM
www.Phoenix_Exotics@… This group sucks! Mean whore and Heathens with no lives reside there. The president of the playgroup, fatty fatty two by four, she couldnt fit through the bathroom door, But she can sure open cougar pens for tourists cameras. CLEAN those cages, some PE members animals are sleeping in filth. How
responciable is private ownership if the animals suffer or endangered by
members? I see both on the API expose of PE.

Carole Lewis Baskin
Posted By Monkey Mom on 03/16/2006 @ 11:32 PM
Whether or not you support a private citizen’s right to own an exotic animal, committing fraud by lying to the people who support you should never be tolerated. For a woman of Carole’s character to be calling private owners and others ‘unethical’ because they live and work with exotics is a joke. The only difference is that private owners care for and support their own animals while Carole has found a way to have the public support her cats while she pays a staff to care for them. The majority of cats listed on Carole’s website are not rescues at all, but her own private collection. They are not ‘victims of the pet trade’ but cats bought and bred by Carole Lewis Baskin for her own enjoyment … something she wishes to deny every other person but herself. The people who donate to BCR are doing so on the basis of the lies told both on the website and by the tour guides. And by the way….what ever happened to Carole’s ‘disappeared’ husband, Don?

Big Cat Lies
Posted By Shoe on 03/16/2006 @ 11:30 PM
Let’s see if I got this right, Carole Baskin (formerly Carole Lewis) was an exotic pet owner, who became a breeder, who bought and/or bred up to 130 animals. Then decides to become a “Sanctuary�, make up rescue stories (normally called lying) to entice/solicit donations for the upkeep of her pets. Meanwhile lobbying to ban others, thinking she is one of the chosen few that knows best. Not to mention keeping her tax-free non-profit status. Additionally, badmouthing anyone else doing what she does/did. Yup Chris Hawes got it right, and probably would find out more if he had the time.

Petty”?
Posted By Tom on 03/16/2006 @ 09:49 PM
Petty attack, Roger Figg? Carole Baskins fights to get everyone banned from owning big cats. She fights to punish people who try to take care of big cat species by raising more big cats. Her program amounts to a deliberate attack against several species that she pretends to care for. The kind of morality she pushes is very strange, that it is somehow moral to eliminate the lives and bloodlines of most of the representatives of the feline species on this planet. So it’s petty to point out Baskins’s hypocrisy. I don’t accept that. I don’t know why you think that anyone would accept your rhetoric. The fact is that humans who raise exotic animals are the only hope for many species. By that I do mean private owners, the same private owners who have raised millions of dogs, cats, cattle, and other species. Whatever you call it, success speaks for itself. Any species that is “exploited” by humans has a guaranteed future, in large numbers, many of them enjoying a very high standard of living compared to living in “nature.” This is a result that cannot be accomplished by a diminishing number of zoos that have a plan to breed a few hundred invididuals without the genetic variety needed to make a truly viable species. And I haven’t even talked about the monkeys that I have seen pictures of that the API has
allowed to rot.

BCR
Posted By Roger Figg on 03/16/2006 @ 08:06 PM
I am well versed in the current big cat trade. I have been licensed for 20 some years by USDA. This station is being used to push a PETTY attack by the members of  www.phoenix_exotics@… If you jion the list the archives show this was planned by PE members to harm BCR. If you go to a API report on Phoenix Exotics, they need to CLEAN themselves.
Phoenix list
members have even attacked me in person. Is a private exotic ownership group thats in support of ownership, Animal rights terrorists by attacking others?
Roger Figg www.DomesticPanthera.com www.CarnivoreConcepts.com

Big Cat “Rescue”
Posted By Tom on 03/16/2006 @ 07:22 PM
Carole Baskins has published a plan to rid the United States of all big cats in human hands within twenty years. Presumably this means what it says. Her plan includes the end of keeping big cats in zoos and the species survival plans. The US is actually very good at improving the chances of survival of many endangered species, and private owners actually produce the majority of successful breedings towards this end. Animals that are vanishing due to human predation against them are actually prospering in private homes and this is what Carole Baskins‘s program wants to bring to an end. Breeding of threatened and endangered species should be encouraged, not discouraged. I don’t even know how it occurred to anyone to ban the private breeding of animals that are becoming
rare in the wild. What can I say that this is like? A captive bred tiger is still a tiger. If we breed more of them the species may die out in the wild, but there are thousands already in captivity that make up a viable breeding pool. Yes, there are some problems when private owners breed any animal, but the end result is that we have more tigers when the world needs more tigers, more ocelots when the world needs more ocelots, and so on. It’s the only way we can do it right now. We need to get over it, grow up, and start taking
responsibility for what humans have done to other species. We can do this by working on what humans can do FOR other species.

BCR
Posted By Victoria on 03/16/2006 @ 06:19 PM
I am pleased to see reporting that for once exposes the real truth about Bigcat Rescue in Tampa and Mrs. Carole Baskin. I applaud the reporter, Chris Hawes, for having the courage to set the record straight and for those that participated in exposing the lies generated from Ms. Baskin’s propaganda. Ms. Baskin of Bigcat Rescue is an exhibitor of exotic animals not a Sanctuary. Here in Florida real Sanctuaries do not need a USDA license to provide caring homes for animals as long as they don’t breed, sell, or exhibit. Ms. Baskin has a Class “C” exhibitors license which allows her to show her animals commercially and for money. She also asks for donations from the unsuspecting public to provide homes for animals that we now know were not abused?? Hypocritical? Yes, I would say so.

From: exoticanimals2@…
Date: Fri Mar 17, 2006  5:46 pm
Subject: Re: Bay News 9  exoticanimals3

I found the earlier post that someone had taken off of Bay News 9 and I am wondering why that specific post was copied and pasted with out posting all of them. In case anyone would like to see the other posts I have copied and pasted  them.
Jude

From: ” Deb” <chimps@…
Date: Sat Mar 18, 2006  8:06 pm
Subject: BCR news clip now available to view  luvgr8apes

The news story can now be viewed at the following site:

http://www.phoenixexotics.org

Permission to cross post most definitely granted

From: ” Deb” <chimps@…
Date: Sun Mar 19, 2006  12:01 pm
Subject: BCR & FCF connection is fact  luvgr8apes

Straight from BCR site..  When did Carolyne join FCF, 2000?  Sounds like Carole
Baskin doesn’t allow or approve of volunteers who do not agree with her ideas.
But it’s ok for CC to remain… how convenient.

3/16/06 Chris Hawes interviewed former volunteers who had left our mission prior
to the year 2000 due to their failure to evolve with our understanding thatexotic cats should not be bred, sold, traded or used for personal gain.

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:23:37 -0000
From: “slowswimmer1” thomaskirby169@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: MN: Wow! We got noticed! Details

It’s just crazy.  A lot of this stuff seems so very staged that I get suspicious.  I made this speech about how it wasn’t necessary for there to be a conspiracy and they were just taking advantage of natural occurences but there are features of both the Hilderbrand
incident and the Gamble incident that are very suspicious, stinking of setups.  Maybe all it was was that they were so mentally ready for it.  But the Gamble incident came shortly after Meme’s death and a lot of Quist’s bashing of other tiger owners including Gamble.  Sometimes things happen at far too opportune a time.  Even without being guilty of arranging incidents, some of these people are obvious ghouls.

Sometimes they deliberately employ the most indecent tactics that they can excuse, like attacking someone right after a family member has died and driving them to have to move their animals when they are disabled by grief.  When they are that indecent, arranging incidents doesn’t seem like such a stretch anymore.  I don’t really think that
this kind of vulture has the patience to wait until something dies of natural causes.

A long time ago a writer by the name of Vance Packard talked about a “screwing by expertism.”  Experts on a given subject would lie to support a given agenda, like we are seeing.  The “truth” became what the hired experts said.  Real people have big trouble understanding what happened because they have trouble believing that such lies
carried such weight, especially when they know that a lot of people don’t believe those lies or the experts.

But the PETA types have really played both ends against the middle and screwed us around.  People really do expect PETA types to push for laws allowing people to keep big cats and oppose those laws on those grounds even through PETA has very vocally opposed private ownership. How do people get so confused?  It’s because PETA  deliberately confuses people.  Local authorities often deliberately confuse people too.  Why does one sanctuary get a pass and another doesn’t?  To further the confusion, to make people think that the animals are being rescued, and because they know which sanctuary owners are willing to conspire to destroy the others.  Someone like Quist gains an unlimited supply of animals that she doesn’t have to pay the owners for.  She
gets the donations for “rescuing” the animals.  A lot of them no one is going to know if they were euthanized to make space and made into fur coats the way Baskins does. They even confuse people about why the “rescues” were necessary, when it’s often due to the ban laws.

I am having real trouble living with all of this.

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:17:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: BOB PITT <azooforu@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Re: drawing attention to zoo incidents

YOU ARE NOT A ZOO !!!  You may be licensed like a zoo, you may be inspected like a zoo, but I PROMISE you that you will NOT be considered a ZOO to the general
public or to a politician.  You are a “private collector, a road side attraction.”  You are no
different then any other USDA licensed facility that does NOT have an AZA stamp by their name.

Read the first post I wrote.  I said we need to show the experts are wrong and are not deserving their EXPERT status.

We are NOT showing that ownership is this or ownership is that.  We are showing AZA is nothing more then a club.  they have the same incidents as everyone else. We are showing that PETA is a scam, as well as HSUS.  We are showing the BCR is a lying, thieving witch. We are showing that WAO is a lying, thieving witch that needs to go back to her own country and deal with their animal problems.  We are showing that TAOS and ASA are both nothing more then CLUBS, that have NO more experience, or better care then any private keeper.

We need to show how these groups with their experts cause the deaths of 100’s to thousands of animals every year.  PETA claims 90% of ALL MACAQUE monkeys
have Siamian B.  If this were true many people would be dead every year, when in fact the last death due to S. B. was to a research tech. working with a known Siamian B monkey, NOT A PRIVATE KEEPER !!  These “EXPERTS” have casued many monkeys to be killed because they are “BELIEVED” to have a diesease..  This is what we MUST SHOW !!!

We must stop hiding in the shadows, we must stop thinking we are exempt, we must stop saying cat people are worse then monkey people.  Stand TOGETHER and call our enemies BLUFFS.  They can NOT show proof of ANY of their claims.  Likewise, most if NOT all of our major enemies have such a SHADY BACKGROUND, that if we go on the attack and ask questions into their groups we can and will win victories every step of the way.

Their comes a time in every fight to drop the gloves. NOW is the time to hit right in the nose.  This will snap the @#@#$#@%@$’s back into th real world.  It is time to STOP turning the other cheek, stop letting it go in one ear and out the other.  It is time to PUNCH them right in the nose and give them a REALITY BREAK.

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:19:55 -0400
From: “Ray” <rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com
Subject: Re: drawing attention to zoo incidents

People are listening to zoos damn EVERY other form of owner and exhibitor. Zoos have credibility. Everybody assumes they know everything.

Yes, zoos are working with AR groups. This is largely because they feel superior to everyone and think they don’t make mistakes. They feel invulnerable to criticism. They have defused most of the classic “ethical” questions regarding captivity to the public’s mind. They feel safe.

If we place THEM in perspective maybe they will see the same arguments can be used against them. Keepers and public get hurt in every segment, not just “pet” ownership, which is low by comparison.

The sanctuary groups also feel secure since they are directly in bed with the AR groups. Airing their dirty laundry would make them less willing to criticize others. They get a COMPLETE pass as things stand now. They are the number ONE thrust behind ban pushes and ALWAYS get themselves exempted.

If they thought THEY risked facing the same consequences of a ban they’d be a LOT less willing to demand them, maybe even shut up or change sides.

How long would Carole Baskin campaign for changes to Florida’s laws if she knew they would shut her down too?

The public is not getting the whole picture on this anymore than they get it on 95% of any other stories. The media takes a side, doesn’t question info supplied by those it agrees with, and acts as a tool, knowingly or unwittingly, to push the agenda.

Most of the time they never hear the true details. If they did they would hesitate to lie by omission lest it come back to bite them. No reporter likes to be embarrassed.

We have to provide perspective. Nobody else will. A few seeds of doubt here and there could kill some stories and campaigns and change directions of others.

Staying silent is accepting the current situation, even endorsing it.

Ray

Point out shady pasts

Message: 22
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 08:45:47 -0000
From: “Marsha” <marshaha@pressenter.com
Subject: Re: MN: Wow! We got noticed! Details

— In Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com, Tim Stoffel <tim@… wrote:
Any theories what happened here?

Not enough info on this specific case, and it looks like no witnesses.  Past history of the tiger and the autopsy may be the only clues.  If you like conspiracy theories…I have to wonder if someone has come up with something to agitate big cats into being more likely
to attack (unbeknownst to the handler, who would otherwise take sensible precautions)  A device that plays an annoying sound the human can’t hear, a scent, etc.  Who has a vested interest in seeing more attacks happen, so they can pontificate on how the incident proves
that private ownership should be banned?  Perhaps the best Anti ammo of all is when the person that is injured or killed is someone with years of experience, who truly love their animals, who are assumed to be able to “read” their animals.  You’d think that every owner would be taking extra precautions these days with so much publicity about each incident.  So why are these incidents happening?  Complacency on the part of handlers, perhaps a defensive desire to prove large carnivores aren’t the killing machines the media portrays?  Inbreeding?  Environmental factors?  Or a deliberate act?

Marsha

Message: 23
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 08:48:31 -0000
From: “Marsha” <marshaha@pressenter.com
Subject: Re: MN: Wow! We got noticed! Details

— In Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com, Tim Stoffel <tim@… wrote:
tell you how many times (the tiger) kept running at the fences and just making that screeching roar. It’s something I’ll probably never, ever forget. I don’t know how these people get used to it and work with those animals.”

It’s not the spine-tingling “screeching roar” that steals human hearts, it’s those chuffs of greeting and purrs of contentment.

Marsha

Message: 24
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 05:48:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: BOB PITT <azooforu@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Re: MN: Wow! We got noticed! Details

The zoo director who states he is against private ownership, what can we find on him.  At least a dozen accidents have occured in the USA at ACCREDITED ZOO’s. The time has come to show the faults of all of our enemies.  AZA, TAOS, ASA, BCR, ACE.  Everyting from questionable financial records, to lacking health papers, to violations of the AWA.  This needs to be complete and detailed, then we can present it to a national paper and show facts, NOT opinons..  WOULD ANYONE like to lend a hand on getting this together, proofing and set-up and final print. This has to be done to combat comments like the Sen.made in the paper about banning them all.  It has to be done in a detailed, and undeniable fashion.  This is what is on our side.  Figures are real for us, and
INFLATED against us..  This is what we MUST show.

Message 12
From: “lndmonk@aol.com” lndmonk@aol.com
Date: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:21pm(PDT)
Subject: Re: Getting paranoid now

In a message dated 4/13/06 12:19:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
aklizard@ptialaska.net writes:

well if  we license all breeding it should weed out, or breed out irresponsible people  too, then only responsible ones could reproduce, why limit it to dogs?and  accidental breedings would be banned too, by making a law that all must be  neutered but the approved , surely that is more dire with all the  billions I believe API, BCR,WAO and many many other licensed facilities are  proof irresponsible, lying, cheating, and corrupt people are not weeded out by  simply licensing ….Again who will be the judge of who is responsible and  allowed to breed and who is not??  TAOS?  PETA?  HSUS?   USDA?  AZA?  Linda

_Simply Simian_ ()

Re: Zoning Report

Message 18
From: “exoticanimals2@comcast.net” exoticanimals2@comcast.net
Date: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:17am(PDT)
Subject: Re: Big Cat Rescue approved for rezoning

Watch for their upcoming news on Washington’s Channel News 5. Will be airing
next week. I also, will be a part of that news.
Jude

From: Bigcats10@aol.com
County officials give Big Cat Refuge the right to rezone 3 acres for  housing
and other amenities.

By JACKIE RIPLEY, Times Staff  Writer
Published April 14, 2006

…and who was watching the tigers?

Posted on Fri, Apr. 14, 2006

Details emerging from the tragic Pine County tiger attack that took the life of trainer Cynthia Gamble last week paint a more gruesome picture than previously imagined. The tiger, now euthanized, was examined and found to have had parts of the woman’s body in its stomach. The cat was at least 150 pounds underweight, no doubt a major factor in the killing.

Gamble, who held a USDA license for her bankrupt Center for Endangered Cats, was described by friends as an expert handler who “loved” her feline charges. That would have been tough love at best. No reasonable parent would starve a child out of love, and Gamble’s terrible fate offers the most compelling case yet against private ownership of big cats.

Not helping is the confusion of who’s really acting in the interest of the animals. Carole Baskin of Big Cat Rescue in Tampa, Fla., denounces private ownership of menageries such as Gamble’s. Las Vegas tiger trainer Zuzana Kukol expressed support of Gamble but accuses Baskin of breeding cats rather than rescuing them from abusive owners. Baskin calls that “old news,” saying her past actions are what make her so adamant against the practice.

Whatever. The whole scat fight is reason, as expressed in a letter on this page, for restricting big cats to their natural habitats or zoos — and accredited ones at that.

Carole’s Note:  Zuzana Kukol was the VP of Phoenix Exotics and may still be.

From: “Tim Stoffel” <tim@lionlamb.us
To: <Phoenix_Exotics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Aslan / Big Cat Rescue

On Fri, 2006-04-14 at 14:58 -0400, Jerry & Linda Gleisser wrote:
Thought you’d find this result I got from googling Narnia artwork
interesting:

Aslan Lion Photo with Cub
Find out what having your picture
with a baby big cat is all about.
www.BigCatRescue.org

It took me a few minutes to find this as a SPONSORED LINK on Google. If you follow the link, it takes you to one of Carole Baskin‘s anti exhibiting pages, full of misinformation and hate. I wonder if there is a way to petition Google not to accept money for such a misleading link.

Further, to use the good name of ASLAN to promote her twisted agenda is reprehensible. Aslan is such a special name among lions that I would never even use that name myself. In my opinion, using Aslan’s name this way is the same as using God’s name in vain. All this will do is call a  well-deserved curse down on Mrs. Baskin.

For the lions,
Tim Stoffel

Message 17
From: “Prometheus Horse” prometheus_horse@yahoo.com
Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:13am(PDT)
Subject: Re: Aslan / Big Cat Rescue

Why not squabble about it on the boards related to the movie and get them roaring at BCR about their use of the name. Picketing movie-fanatics isn’t good press no matter how you slice it so I’d bet it’d disappear in a hurry.

DTF

Message 18
From: “BOB PITT” azooforu@yahoo.com
Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:01am(PDT)
Subject: Re: Aslan / Big Cat Rescue

Also, is that more “LOBBYING” on there part.  We have a non-profit and I know that you can only use a very small portion of you revenue for this purpose.  I’m sure all trips to all the bans they are pushing are on this, as well as the people who write them up, and I
wonder what kind of “GIFTS” the board got to go against everyone else to allow their zoning ??  Do you think they (board) did it for a free years pass .. LOL

Message 22
From: “Ray” rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com
Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:32am(PDT)
Subject: Re: Aslan / Big Cat Rescue

Send the link to Disney legal and see what they think. They probably have a trademark issue here. This is akin to selling toys with the name on them. Be sure to send a copy of Carole’s 20-year plan so they understand she’s an enemy of theirs too.

Otherwise there’s a risk of them allowing her to do it as a charitable act.

Ray

Message 24
From: “Ray” rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com
Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:02am(PDT)
Subject: Re: Aslan / Big Cat Rescue

DANGER!

That’s the WORST thing we could do. (Been there!)

There’s a very REAL danger that they would actually encourage Disney to sanction it as a PR move.

Think about it: Concerned, loving, sanctuary for poor abused pet big cats wants to get support for its oh-so-wonderful work. What a swell opportunity for promotion and positive PR for a big and hated media company!

And it’s for the lions, right?

And if Disney doesn’t do it they will be attacked as a cold, heartless, corporation by the movie crowd, as is their habit. So, which way will Disney/Walden jump in that situation?

Remember, those people neither know who Baskin is nor the complex exotic animal industry, animal rights/liberation, and political web. Many right here haven’t gotten it yet. Many there WILL be AR-leaning to start with.

The result? BCR gets an OK AND a powerful media partner – which owns networks – to promote her agenda.

Can’t you just see it? “This week on ABC! At 8:00 it’s Carole Baskin‘s World of Wild Cats!” You thought the crocodile hunter was big? Get a real media outfit behind her and watch the dust. Tippi will be an old forgotten star but Carole will be a current name.

Better write Disney fast, before Carole and her AR friends sell them on it. Mention her back story. Don’s murder, etc.

Ray

Message 1
From: “annette.lundberg” annette.lundberg@chello.se
Date: Sun Apr 16, 2006 0:48pm(PDT)
Subject: Carol Baskin and bigcatrescue

Hi,
i am forwarding this from the bobcat-lynx list Its interesting though…

Annette

Vänliga Hälsningar
Annette & Sirpelkvick
From: “Cyndi” <luna6killer@…>
Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006  9:54 pm
Subject: Fw: [hybridcats] IMPORTANT SEND THIS TO EVERY CAT/HYBRID LIST YOUCAN

Hi everyone – this came thru on another list I belong to – please check it out and then see if you can help.  This site has the most damaging slide show and the page referred to is very anti-exotic or hybrid owner.  There is some evidence (I can’t verify it yet) that the owner of this website may actually be a less than honest person as it has been stated that most of her exotics were actually her animals and she was breeding them and selling the kits at one point? Anyways, not trying to start any more ‘flames’ around here but would like to see if we could keep this from happening.  Exotic and hybrid owners do not need a bad rep!!   Cyndi

From:  <mailto:julia2@gate.net> julia2@gate.net
To:  <mailto:julia2@gate.net> julia2@gate.net
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2006 3:06 PM
Subject: [hybridcats] IMPORTANT SEND THIS TO EVERY CAT/HYBRID LIST YOU CAN

HELP COMBAT CAROL BASKIN’S LIES!!!!!

If you google in bengal cats, jungle cat hybrid, chausie, savannah cats, safari cats, or stone cougars (all keywords in the Big Cat Rescue flaming hybrid page, a sponsored link appears on the right hand side of the Google page that reads…

<http://www.google.com/url?sa=l&ai=BspopFJtARNGaIpHosQGC_YQG8PvGDoykkvYBxL7mtQuQvwUQARgBKAM4AEiTOVCszY7B_f____8BmAHfc6oBBDJOUlPIAQGVAic0LAo&num=1&q=http
://www.bigcatrescue.org/hybrids.htm> All Hybrid Exotic Cats
are listed here with photos, facts,
stories, myths & breeder insiders.
www.bigcatrescue.org <http://www.bigcatrescue.org/>

Click on that link and you are directed to the page she has set up maligning hybrid cats, exotics and breeders.

This means that anyone looking on the biggest search engine in the world for a hybrid will promptly see the above sponsored link and fed Carole Baskin’s lies. Not only will this impact on adoptions, but it will undermine everything responsible breeders and hybrid owners have worked to accomplish for so many years.

This is a PAY PER CLICK link–anytime anyone clicks on the link, BCR pays.

Go to Google. Type in one of the key words. Click on the sponsored link. When the page appears, hit the “Back” button. Click again. Click as many times as you can in your spare time. If the link does not appear, it means that the daily or monthly budget may have been maxed out. Check back daily and click away.

Message 4
From: “Prometheus Horse” prometheus_horse@yahoo.com
Date: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:15pm(PDT)
Subject: Re: Carol Baskin and bigcatrescue (IMPORTANT)

*smiles* well, you’re sorta half right. Sites log each click by individual IP per day (usually 12m to 11:59p). So if you’re on dialup, you can click, log off, sign back on and click again, running their bill up. If you’re on DSL you’re pretty much stuck to one click a day. But that’s a flyby of how IP logging works regarding charge-per-click. Thus, if too many clicks come from an individual IP address they’ll void them all, but… the trick is “how many is too many?” Either way… there’s the long and the short of it all.   DTF

Message 23
From: “Mbrafford@aol.com” Mbrafford@aol.com
Date: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:25pm(PDT)
Subject: Re: [Phoenix_Exotics] Re: Need a Big Cat Expert to reply

So, does Phoenix launch editorials back at her or is it best to remain silent? I would think silence is our enemy. The Lakeland Area is close to Tampa and Orlando Florida and is the home to a very large SPCA organization. The town also has many of Florida`s politicians living there. I know, I taught their children. The Ledger was chosen for a reason.

Message 1
From: “Ray” rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com
Date: Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:20pm(PDT)
Subject: Re: Need a Big Cat Expert to reply

IF the Ledger will publish an opposing view then write them.

The SPCA is already working with Carole through HumaneUSA if I recall correctly.

The pliticians are a toss-up. Some may be open to reason and some may agree philosophically with Carole. Contact all you know about and maybe it will create enough doubt to undermine support for her.

Too many believe what they hear and never question or look into things. The material has to be brought to them and shoved under their noses or they will act on slanted views and lies.

Ray

Message 5
From: “Ray” rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com
Date: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:08pm(PDT)
Subject: Re: Need a Big Cat Expert to reply

They also need to be informed that activists are using their editorial pages to push an agenda without their knowledge. A link to the original source should suffice. Maybe they will also want to know about Carole’s past.

There are several good stories here for an enterprising reporter. Maybe even a Pulitzer.  Ray

Re: Smuggling exotics across state and federal boundaries in violation of the Lacey Act

myzootoyou@yahoo.com (979) 388-0782 Nathan Wheelock <myzootoyou@yahoo.com> wrote: Well…..we were talking about ferrets. 50,000 ferrets are beleived to be in California. CA has advocotes for legalization, yet gets shot down each year. I, for,one, have no problem with people sneaking in ferrets, or hedgehogs/sugar gliders for that matter.

Message 20 From: “Prometheus Horse” prometheus_horse@yahoo.com Date: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:42pm This is primarily directed to Mark Cameron, but just so everyone knows…. I don’t promote illegal activities until all legal means are, or have been exhausted. I’ve done emergency relocations to prevent seizures of animals by the powers that (may times shouldn’t) be…. and other similar activities, where the only damage is to the pride of some DA, ACO, or other governmental or quasi-governmental individual. My forte is canines…. which are a bit easier to transport en masse without arousing suspicion, but when it comes to saving an animal’s life, you’re damn skippy I’d do damn near whatever it takes. And that’s something you can take to the bank. And for those that immediately think “AR raids”… no. That’s not in me, nor would I ever be that way, but in the hypothetical I wouldn’t be averse to aiding in the “disappearance” of an animal accused of something before it can be seized, the midnight-relocation of an accused indivdiual’s beloved animals, or even the magical escape of specific animals from the animal version of death row. And yes, I do support the underground exodus of Pit Bulls from the cities of Denver, and would support the same from Aurora if they pass legislation similar to Denver. For any explanation greater than that, you’ll have to get to know me personally. DTF

Kathy Gallagher <celticferret@yahoo.com> 614-785-0794 HEART OF OHIO FERRET ASSOC. & RESCUE P.O. Box 15753 Columbus, OH 43215-0753 wrote: Jumping in Without giving you the route there are directions posted on ferret boards for getting into CA without having to go through CA agricultural inspection. There are roads with no inpsection and there are roads where the inspection centers have been closed due to budget cuts. It’s all in the knowing and in the time of day. KG

From PublicData.com

Aliases associated with Linda Hunnicutt:

We have listed information on those who seek to discredit us for two reasons:

1.  So that you can make your own determination as to their credibility and sincerity.

2.  In the hopes that you will say a silent prayer for them asking that they find peace and discover their inner beauty that will cause them to want to spread good will rather than gossip.

It has been reported to us that Linda Hunnicutt claims and has claimed to have 501(c)3 nonprofit status in numerous places on the internet, including using organization names:
Monkeys in the Mountains; National Primate Association and North Carolina Survivors.

Another of her online petitions was at http://www.thepetitionsite.com and described as “To fight Terrorism at home and to raise funds for this prototype program The National Primate Association Inc. a 501-C-3 Non-Profit association is offering two opportunities to win with your donation dollars.”

If you go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APES/ and search for “Hunnicutt” in the archives you can read about a few of the situations in which this person was said to have ripped off people who bought monkeys from her including Betty Cahill. [note: Linda Hunnicutt has no USDA license to be dealing in wild animals]

Hunnicutt was reported to be the owner of a YahooGroups list called Caucasian Caucus which was a white supremacist forum.

She is also said to have had a so-called animal rights site at

A few names she is alleged to use:

Linda Lamm
Lynn Lamm
Linda French
Linda Hunnicutt
Lynn Hunnicutt
Mrs. Tim Hunnicutt
Lynda Schubkegel
Linda Schubkegel
Irv

She is reported to be active on lists under many addresses, a few of which are:

hgh4all@aol.com
jmarconsulting@yahoo.com
Lindahun@aol.com
lindahun@petlover.com
lindahunnicutt@aol.com
lindahunnicutt1@netzero.net
lndmonk@aol.com
Lschubkegel@aol.com
lynnhunnicutt@yahoo.com
lynnlamm@yahoo.com
monkeysinthemts@aol.com
mountainladydiamond@yahoo.com
nationalprimates@yahoo.com
natprimate@aol.com
ncsurvivors@aol.com
repopac@aol.com
rlamm@boxfrog.com
roflmao101@yahoo.com
shirley250@aol.com
Simplysimianinc@aol.com
timhun@aol.com
timhun@aol.com
z6e6v8nb@aol.com

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We have listed information on those who seek to discredit us for two reasons:

1.  So that you can make your own determination as to their credibility and sincerity.

2.  In the hopes that you will say a silent prayer for them asking that they find peace and discover their inner beauty that will cause them to want to spread good will rather than gossip.

The last part of the email address is often stripped from chat groups so that people can operate with anonymity but the following people have appeared in other online posts and exotic animal related groups.  While it appears that these are the same people who are currently trying to discredit the good work being done by Big Cat Rescue to end the suffering and abuse of exotic animals it would be up to you to speak with them to make the determination for yourself.

Raven Simons
raven@performanceaudio.com
Also see
same email address as Raven Ariana
raven@performanceaudio.com

southzoo@aol.com
Rhonda Kiker
Mt. Holly, NC 28120

tigers9@cox.net
Zuzana Kukol
Former Vice President of Phoenix Exotics and reportedly is married to one of the Fercos Brothers (Las Vegas big cat
exhibitors)

azooforu@yahoo.com
Bob Pitt
Reported to have lost his USDA license and is reported to be under investigation for importing a jaguarundi from Russia sans licensing.

Bob@chnevin.com
Bob Nevin
Lives in Ohio. Has no exotic animals.

Bigcats10@aol.com
Vicki Windland Taraska
Current VP of Phoenix Exotics
Owns bigs cats. Was on NBC Today show feeding an adult tiger with a bottle.

rrooney@ucwphilly.rr.com or runeraion@yahoo.com “Ray” aka Raymond Rooney aka Ray Rooney Real name is Raymond Keeper. Has no exotic animals (claims he used to).
Is said to be on disability and live with his mother in Philadelphia, PA 19127

chimps@tampabay.rr.com and luvgr8apes@tampabay.rr.com Deb Hoskey is reported to be or have been friends with Gini Valbuena of Valbuena’s Chimps.

tim@lionlamb.us
Tim Stoffel
Reno NV 89506-9231
Reported to be a volunteer keeper at a roadside zoo/non accredited-sanctuary in Reno, NV called Sierra Safari Zoo.

grizzly_bear_mom@yahoo.com and panthera93@hotmail.com claims to be Heather Mueller and claims to now own

—–Original Message—–
From: Heather M [mailto:grizzly_bear_mom@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 8:02 PM
To: phoenix_exotics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Phoenix_Exotics] Bear Necessities

http://web.archive.org/web/20060303140416/http://jungleparadisezoo.org:80/BearFacility.html

A few links to photos of my facility!
Heather

ARIGERMAN@aol.com
Alan Rigerman
HIALEAH FL 33015
Has FL Class I, II and III permits, including for felidae and crocodilidae.

ginival@aol.com
Gini Valbuena
Raises chimps and orangutans in a residential neighborhood in the Tampa bay area of FL. Featured on National Geographic’s ‘Primate Parents’ as an animal user.
She claims to raise these primates for an undisclosed private zoo.

exoticanimals2@comcast.net
Judie Harrison
Lives in Maryland and has two chimpanzees, Mikey and Louie, and other primates. Has an “inside zoo”. Web site www.partysafarizoo.com Judie states, ” I was a member on the Phoenix Exotics list for about a few months and after reading some of the posts I realized what terrible people they were and have dropped off of the list months ago. I do not wish to be associated with anyone that treats their animals in any manner other then perfect with good enrichment, excellent health care, clean habitats and socialization.”

prometheus_horse@yahoo.com
Tim Fuller
Lives in Lodi, WI
Website http://web.archive.org/web/20111222171339/http://www.neopoa.com:80/
He posts on numerous zoophilia websites and is said to have had complaints filed against him for his posts on those sites.

Mbrafford@aol.com
Mark Brafford
Lakeland, Fl. 33813

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Response from The Association of Sanctuaries

“Carole,

I’ve looked over the material you sent as well as that that came from Ms. Hunnicutt and I don’t see that there is any foundation to her allegations…I’ve talked with Eileen about this and we agree that “case closed.” If questions arise or repeats of previous accusations that we have already examined come up, feel free to refer the person to me as representative of TAOS who will tell them our findings and rationale.

While you and I have disagreed about various things over the years, I have no qualms about saluting you for the advocacy work you are doing. It is important and something more sanctuaries need to be involved in.

Regards,

Craig Brestrup”